655 Ken Patterson's Vision: Building a True MSP Community at Todyl

[Uncle Marv] (0:14 - 0:48)
Hello friends, Uncle Marv back with another episode of the IT Business Podcast here live at PAX 8 Beyond on Radio Row, day one of the event, and it has been fantastic. And of course, a lot of news is being released here, none of which is more surprising than what I've got for you now, he's already laughing, but that voice you hear, Ken Patterson, who is now going to be at Todyl. Ken, how are you?

Good. How are you, man? I'm good.

It's been a long time. This is our first time caller.

[Ken Patterson] (0:49 - 0:49)
Yeah.

[Uncle Marv] (0:50 - 1:03)
Well, you know what? And it takes me grabbing you out of the crowd to say, come on over. Not true.

Not true. I'm here. All right.

So big news, you're going to be at Todyl. Yep. Yep.

And I'm actually doing a visit to their office. Yeah.

[Ken Patterson] (1:03 - 1:57)
That's going to be great. I'm going to get to see you again. I'll be there.

I'll be at the office this week. Yeah. You know, it's when I, coming from the MSP world for me, you know, I was an MSP for so many years before I joined PAX 8, you know, I didn't want to bounce around, you know, coming from that side.

I spent a lot of years building MSPs and, you know, I built and sold my MSP years before that. And coming over to this side, I know that vendor, it seems like the vendor people move around a bit and I didn't want to do that. And so I was at PAX 8 for four years and I did my time and built the community into a really good spot and still love, obviously, still love them.

I'm here. I'm back in the realm. And you know, I went to Taylor Business Group, great company, love the fact that they're building MSPs and teaching MSPs to be more mature because we all know, you know, a lot of MSPs are just calling themselves MSPs, right, and going through the motions and we really want to get them, you know.

[Uncle Marv] (1:57 - 1:59)
You're calling me out there, aren't you? I'm not calling you out.

[Ken Patterson] (2:00 - 3:55)
You are definitely not one of those, but you know, the ones that want to listen and be more mature and have the ability to say, hey, I do need help, go to coaches and get them, you know, enter into peer groups. And I really do believe that's super important. So I still love what Taylor Business Group is doing, but I really got a, I just had an opportunity here to do some big things with a company that's doing cybersecurity, which has always been big for me because we know how, what our shortcomings are in this industry as MSPs.

And they just had the, it was just something special about Todyl that really lured me in. And I had actually been talking to Todyl for over a year and a half just in general, because some MSPs, of course, you know, our world, we all talk to each other, kept saying, man, if they had a community like, you know, you could take on and help out with. And after, you know, a year and a half, two years of talking with them and just being friendly with them, they came back and said, hey, we've got some funding and we'd really like to invest heavily into the community.

And what was different is they were talking about the community in the right way. They weren't just talking about, hey, we want more customers. They were saying, we want to build a community that works for the MSPs, some place where they can go and they can feel comfortable and they can feel heard and be a part of what it is that we want to build.

And I thought, okay, wow, I have a vendor here who actually gets it. They don't have the tools yet, but they have a lot of the right ideas. And I can plug into that and make that better.

So for me, being able to see that and, you know, I'm kind of a real, I'm kind of a mushy guy when it comes to us as MSPs because I've always been about us as MSPs. I still consider myself an MSP. I did it for so long and I care about it.

There were a lot of vendors trying to get me to come along before I went to Taylor and beyond. Beyond, see, I plugged it right in there. But I never, I never really got that sense that they really wanted to build community.

There was a lot about, okay, what's your sales number going to be? What's this and what's that? It's like, no, no, you're not getting it.

[Uncle Marv] (3:56 - 4:29)
Yeah. It's, I sit on this side where I'm an MSP and I'm in the media, you know, I will pimp up the ones that do get it. The others I'm not, you know, I'm not going to diss them unless they really screw up.

But there are some that are starting to come around and realize, look, we've got to be true partners in this. And the way to build partnership is through community. So now here's the question, because it sounds like you're going to be building this from the ground up.

Is that the way it's going to work?

[Ken Patterson] (4:30 - 5:25)
Yeah. I mean, so they have, like I say, you know, community is not customers. You have customers.

That doesn't mean you have community. I think they've done a decent job already, but I wouldn't say that they have the full community, which is why they came to me and said, you know, hey, come in, let's do this. So for me, it's turning it into that full community, which, you know, I always say, you know, community isn't about just belonging to something.

It's about belonging to something that makes you feel like it matters. Right. And not everybody gets that.

When I was at PAX 8, what we did was I just basically got the opportunity to be me as an MSP and talk to people and say, what is it that you need? What do you how are we going to make you better? And then we could educate.

And then through that, they came back and just said, hey, you know, now I understand X, Y and Z. Now I know what to buy. So they're buying without being sold to.

And I just thought, wow, this is a great concept because doctors don't go out selling. Right. They prescribe you stuff.

[Uncle Marv] (5:26 - 5:31)
Yeah. They don't have to sell, but the pharmaceuticals, they do a lot of selling.

[Ken Patterson] (5:32 - 5:55)
Now you're really going to drag us down a rabbit hole. I mean, but in general, we should be more prescriptive like doctors, because as MSPs, we have a solution that they need. We do much what a doctor does.

A doctor checks us out and then gives us the solution. We have to do the same thing as MSPs. So why are we trying to sell like these car salesmen?

Let's be more prescriptive and educate, much like what you do with this podcast.

[Uncle Marv] (5:55 - 6:21)
Educate. But hasn't there been this misnomer that a lot of times we get treated that way, partially because techs have always kind of been the last run on the ladder. They're the lowest on the expense accounts list.

IT doesn't make us money. It costs us money. And so that's one way they've looked at it.

And of course, we do have some shysters in the industry.

[Ken Patterson] (6:21 - 6:24)
Well, and back in the day, we were also told, sell, sell, sell, right?

[Uncle Marv] (6:24 - 6:24)
Yes.

[Ken Patterson] (6:24 - 6:59)
And we didn't know how to sell because we were technical. We fixed stuff. We didn't know about finance, operations, sales, marketing.

It's a lot of stuff we didn't know, but we all learned it over time. And I think you're right. What happened was we started out just, okay, well, we know we're going to sell.

We read a book on sales and we did it that way. And that's what gave us that used car salesman feel. It's like, oh, these guys are just trying to sell us.

And now we're getting better. We're seeing much more mature MSPs do it in a different way, educate, talk about education, and also not just taking any customer, right? Making sure that you understand what's the right customer for you.

[Uncle Marv] (7:00 - 7:05)
Not just taking any customer, but actually making sure that what we have to offer solves the problem.

[Ken Patterson] (7:05 - 7:06)
Right.

[Uncle Marv] (7:06 - 7:15)
Because that's really what a lot of them are interested in. We've got this problem. Can you fix it?

Yep. Yeah, I can fix it. But I can also prevent it from happening again.

Yep. Yep.

[Ken Patterson] (7:16 - 8:20)
It's a different mindset. It's a different mentality. And once you just go down that path, you'll find the people that went from customers to now being your community, it now works hand in hand.

And one thing that I've been talking a lot about lately is, and I wish I thought about it much earlier. But as an MSP, we spend so much time talking about tech, but here's something new. So let's just say you got traction and it made your business better.

Why not tell your customers about traction? Why not teach them the same things that made your business better, and you're showing them something that has nothing to do with technology, but now they're like, wait a minute, yeah, this helped my business. And when you help their business, they now want you to be a part of their team, and you're going to be someone that they always bring up in the conversation, because you're not just throwing tech down their throat, you're actually talking about business solutions.

When you can bring that to them as part of the whole package, then they're just going to look to you. Hey, by the way, I had this weird little thing happen. Should I be jumping into this?

Or I saw this thing on the news about the cybersecurity hack. Should we be going down this road? And you should already be educating them with that stuff.

[Uncle Marv] (8:20 - 8:58)
One of the best conversations I had with one of my clients is when he just finally said, do you use this in your business? And I said, yes. And he goes, how?

And I sat down and I said, here's it. Here's my dashboard. Here's what I'm doing.

Here's my training. Here's my stuff. And he's like, okay, and that works for you?

I said, it has to. This is what I do for other companies, but it has to start with me. And from that point on, he then was able to ask me about other stuff.

Well, how do you do this in your business, and how do you do that? So they're calling me about stuff that has nothing to do with IT.

[Ken Patterson] (8:58 - 9:53)
You've got to eat your own dog food. You have to do it. And drink your own champagne.

People don't like to eat your own dog food. Interesting story. I had the reverse of that happen to me.

I had one of my techs out in the field, and he was asking to deploy a solution. And then the customer said, okay, so do you guys do this in-house? Why is this taking so long?

And he literally said, oh, no, we don't use this. We use something else. And boom, that just kind of just turned the whole entire thing.

And that's when I realized, holy crap, we should be using it. Because first of all, you have a better understanding of something that you use all the time, and your techs are more familiar with it. You're using it in-house.

They see it every day. Then when you go out there, they're much more comfortable putting it in place. And then like you said, the question comes up, yes, we use this too.

That's how we protect ourselves, and we're supposed to be the ones that are protecting you. But of course, we're using the same solution. And yeah, I wholeheartedly buy into that.

You definitely should be drinking your own champagne.

[Uncle Marv] (9:54 - 10:12)
All right. So let me ask a couple of questions to take us out here. Let me start with the fact that you're here, even though you've moved on.

But you're still here, enjoying the festivities and stuff. How does it feel to be here? It's kind of like you're at the ex-wife's house.

[Ken Patterson] (10:12 - 12:33)
Yeah. Yeah. I never got that feeling because we had such a ...

The culture at PAX 8 was such a family culture. I hate to say that because people are like, oh, family seems weird because it turns on you, right? But I'm still friends with all the people at PAX 8.

I left PAX 8 on good terms. They felt I got them to the right point, so it was okay, and we were all good, and I did my job there in building up that community. And I stayed close with all of them, so that was great.

But coming back, I have a headache. Last night was crazy because I love seeing everybody, but I didn't get a chance to stop and do this. No.

Right? Have the actual conversations to a point because it was so many people, and it was just, hey, hi, hey, hi. But it was still a warm welcome.

It feels great to be back and be able to say, hey, we worked with them because we are on the line. Todyl’ s on the line card, so we have a relationship with PAX 8. I love that.

I love the fact that I get to deal with these people again because they were my family. We really did, and we grew. We took a company.

PAX 8 just exploded during those four years I was there, and it was just cool to see it went from those wingman outfits, right, the flight suits. Yes. Can't forget those.

Right? No, you cannot forget those. In fact, one of the partners, when I first signed up with PAX 8, who was a friend of mine, said, okay, I'm in, but we need a photo of Ken in one of those flight suits.

So I did actually put a flight suit on. It didn't fit me very well, but I did put one on. I did put it on.

We took a photo, and he held up his end of the bargain and moved all his licenses over to PAX 8, but yes, it's definitely a sort of a homecoming, being able to come back and see everybody. I got to talk to John Street, who's one of the best CEOs I've ever got to the pleasure of knowing. I do miss being able to go in the office and him bring me into his place and show me his piano and play a song or something.

The guy is just a great human being. That's the way it is all the way down. All the people that brought me into PAX 8 are still there.

I'm still great friends with them all. This event is crazy. That's the thing that's really blowing my mind is this was supposed to be Wingman 2020, and then COVID hit, right?

Last year was their inaugural year, and I couldn't come out last year, but coming out here and seeing what they did in only one short year is amazing, doubled the amount of people that are here.

[Uncle Marv] (12:34 - 12:41)
It's something else. It's hard to say outgrow a Gaylord's venue, but they might have outgrown.

[Ken Patterson] (12:42 - 12:45)
I'll tell you a fact they did. I'm at a different hotel.

[Uncle Marv] (12:47 - 12:59)
This is super fresh and you're here. Have you even had a chance to think about what you're going to start to build over at Todyl, and are you talking to MSPs here about that?

[Ken Patterson] (12:59 - 14:08)
Yeah, it's going to come up. We have a lot of talks about the why. Why Todyl and Todyl of why you can’t be?

That's the whole thing, and it was that blend that made sense. We're already talking about we want to build a real community internally and externally where MSPs can have a spot to go to and chat with each other, find other MSPs, a platform of such that we can build out, and I can help moderate, piece that together, and also I'm going to do the same old thing. I'll be on social watching people when they have a problem instead of coming to me, which they always should.

Anybody that has a problem at Todyl, come to me. But when those people get crazy and get on social and start typing, I'm going to be right on there and say, hey, listen, we're not perfect, but let's talk about this. Let's find out what's wrong.

So that tied into our community with all the things that we're going to do. We want to build a real platform that's a place for the MSPs to come in and be able to do these different things, and we're going to line it up differently so that they can have different groups, and they're almost like a Slack channel with different groups and stuff, but a bit more advanced and a bit easier to navigate.

[Uncle Marv] (14:10 - 14:32)
Well, good, because I have trouble with Slack, even though I'm a techie. All right, well, Ken, it was good to see you. It's funny, I always tell people, I saw some people, it's weird that I could have seen people more in Florida, but I'm seeing them out on the road as much, same with you.

I mean, it was the last time I saw you; I don't remember.

[Ken Patterson] (14:32 - 14:35)
Yeah, it might have been in Florida, might have been, I don't know.

[Uncle Marv] (14:35 - 14:37)
But Orlando, not Fort Lauderdale.

[Ken Patterson] (14:37 - 14:42)
Well, no, but we did see you in Fort Lauderdale on the bus. Oh, on the bus. Yeah, we came in the bus.

[Uncle Marv] (14:42 - 14:44)
That's right, that was, was that Bart Deasy's thing?

[Ken Patterson] (14:44 - 14:47)
Yeah, well, it was me and George, yeah, we came up with the idea, yeah.

[Uncle Marv] (14:47 - 14:48)
Okay, all righty.

[Ken Patterson] (14:48 - 14:49)
Yeah, a lot of fun.

[Uncle Marv] (14:49 - 14:54)
Well, enjoy yourself, and don't cry too much when you leave.

[Ken Patterson] (14:54 - 14:57)
Yeah, yeah, you know I'm going to cry, why am I going to do that?

[Uncle Marv] (14:58 - 15:13)
I'm going to do it on your show right now. All right, Ken Patterson there, folks, from Todyl. We'll probably have more from him when I visit their office there on Wednesday.

So that's it, another interview from Radio All wrapped up, and we'll be back with more later. We'll see you, Holla.