668 The Future of Cybersecurity: Todyl's Darrin Swan

Hello friends, Uncle Marv here with another episode of the IT Business Podcast, and I'm taking the headphones off because I am no longer at PAX 8 Beyond. I am here on an extended day at the corporate offices of Total, and I'm here with co-founder Darrin Swan. Why did I just go blank there for a second? Long week, Marvin.

It has been a long week. Yeah, really a pleasure to be here with you. Appreciate your time.

Yep, so they asked me to stop by. They knew I was going to be at the conference, and I said, sure, I can do that. So we're here. 

They gave me a short little tour. Nice place here. Very nice building, by the way. 

And if you see us looking off camera, that's my account rep in the back there. I won't embarrass him too much, but awesome. Darrin, how are we doing here? We're doing really well, really awesome. 

I mean, really, and I say this a lot, right, every time I have an opportunity to get in front of service providers is, this is the most exciting moment in our mutual business's history. Rare is it where customers need something so desperately that we can provide it. They all need to be protected as fast as we possibly can together. 

We are in one of those times, and who would have thought that post-COVID would have accelerated all the stuff that we were trying to do before then that customers weren't listening to? It makes sense because we went to a distributed workforce, which created a lot of risk, right? So the VPNs back into the office to get access to things, workers working on networks that weren't managed anymore. So it created a lot of risk that threat actors effectively took advantage of. All right, so I want to talk about a couple of things, but I first want to let everybody know, because people are going to ask, why are you at the Total office? Are you honking them? And the short answer is, I would if I could, but I'm not actually a partner of Total. 

I actually had selected another provider for my secure remote access, and that was pretty much all I knew about Total. But over the last couple of years, I've learned that you guys do a lot more. So some of that education is going to be stuff that I need to get to and learn more about you guys. 

I know you do SIEM. I know that you do perimeter security. There's some other stuff in there.

There's a lot, and I think the best way to explain it is what people know. Networking first, and then security. And what we've done is we've brought networking and security together into a single platform, single pane of glass, single agent approach with the idea of we need to scale cybersecurity. 

It's very challenging and difficult, not impossible, to manage and install and configure several different tool sets, several different products. But when you have a unified approach, you're not in an over-tooled and tooling mindset. You're in a security strategy. 

And the interesting thing with cybersecurity right now is around shifting from IT services, which has historically been a reactive operating mode, when you think about it, right, with remote monitoring solutions, you get an alert, you get a notification, then you go and attack it, right, and help desk and things like that. Cybersecurity is prevention. Let's make sure bad things don't happen in the first place. 

So it's a different operating mindset and shift. So this is part of that journey that we're helping partners go through. IT lights on, IT services versus doors open for business cybersecurity.

So let's go back a little bit because we were talking beforehand and because you're a co-founder, I always like to get the background of how things started. So first, we need to let people know that you were an MSP. Absolutely.

So that helps bring a lot of perspective to what we're doing. But you've had a mindset even before then. Sure.

About processes and automation and doing things the right way, I guess, and stuff like that. So tell the listeners a little bit about that journey. Right. 

And I feel like I was everything I've done in my career was just for this moment, right? Not for this podcast, but this moment in time. In the podcast too. I worked at HP. 

I was a graveyard shift. I worked in the data center. And I had at the time, young lad in my 20s. 

My girlfriend wanted some time off and go do something fun. But I was critically essential. I was a single point of failure for this graveyard shift. 

And my boss wouldn't let me take time off. So I created automation. I created backups. 

I all the things in documentation of walk in, walk out, and everything you needed to do. And so I handed that to my boss and I said, hey, anybody can come in and do this job now. Anybody. 

And so at that point, I was able to take my time off, went to Mexico. That was fun. And then was quickly promoted to be in charge of two data centers at the early age of 23, 24, and had 18 employees managing 24 by 7, 365 operations. 

And from that, my career trajectory just kind of went. I worked at Quest software. I built a service provider channel at Quest software and led that globally. 

Dell acquired Quest software. Dell didn't have an MSP channel program. I built that and led that globally, launched it and ran that for a few years over at Dell. 

And then for one crazy reason or another, love the channel, love MSP. I decided to become an MSP CEO. So I bought into an MSP out of the Bay Area, doubled the revenue, doubled the business, grew it to 5 million, and we decided to sell and exit.

So there was a point in time when you mentioned the timeframe of all this happening where I'm like, I don't think the term MSP was actually there back in the early 2000s. It wasn't. It was interesting. 

I was watching, modeling out the right approach for MSPs, right? IT service providers. I mean, even our business had a challenge of what we called it. Service provider channel back in the day. 

But what we did see was trends from Microsoft. You know, when you think about when BPOS came to market, that was kind of like the prelude to Office 365, obviously, but that became that channel motion with Microsoft email. And so that's where we latched onto. 

There's a couple other vendors out there that were beginning to see what was happening with this MSP channel. But that's when it really kicked off in 2007, 2008. And then what would possess you to leave Dell to go run an MSP? Well, I'll just tell you one thing. 

I know what it's like, the blood, sweat and tears, you know, do whatever it takes. I know what it's like to make payroll. With that said, you know, I worked with a partner. 

I had a real successful partner of mine. And he's like, Darrin, let's go. Let's go destroy. 

Let's go grow and scale because, you know, the MSP channel so well. You know what works well and what doesn't work well. Join in. 

And I got excited about that entrepreneurial aspect. I wanted to jump in and take the risk of doing something fun and exciting where I could have direct individual contributor results and success that I get to participate in. All right. 

So then let's jump to the question of what did you see missing that led you to then help co-found Total? So with Total, it was very exciting back when we first came across Total. So this is 2019, where we came across John Nellen, you know, founder, CEO, and heard his vision of where he was taking the business, what he wanted to go accomplish with the Total platform. And so at my MSP, we had an engineering client in the Bay Area that when the call came for COVID and everybody had to work remote, we had a big problem to solve on Monday. 

So we had 460 employees that needed to all of a sudden be remote on Monday. So we spent four hours with the Total team. And this is in 2020, where we had to get them all remote. 

Four hours spent to design and then roll out. All those 460 employees showed up on Monday. They all had remote access to all their systems beautifully. 

And that was another kind of earmark or point where I was like, what the vision here is and what Total was doing, I had to be a part of it. All right. So I'm going to skip over the Total stuff because I'm going to go right to this other question that I have. 

Because when I look at some of the products and vendors out there, and everybody says that, you know, we're filling this void, we're filling this gap. I always look at the perspective of MSPs don't know that there's a gap, in a sense. And I'll put myself in that category, because what happens is we see that there's a need. 

We don't see it as a gap, we just see it as, I don't think I want to deal with that over there. And there's a lot of talk about us right now having to become security first minded, security first, we've got to do that. And there's a lot of MSPs that are running the other way.

And people like me are trying to figure out, okay, where do I fit in this? And then of course, the successful MSPs that have understood it, they're, you know, rocking and rolling. So from your perspective, how do you see MSPs dealing with this security first mindset? It's a challenge. And I'll, you know, what I believe to be the kind of core of it is there's a lot to learn. 

And a lot of it centers around the customer. And what the trends and what's taking place in the market and what's happening from a threat actor perspective, what's happening from a regulatory compliance perspective. And there's a lot of moving parts here. 

And when there's a lot of moving parts of complexity and things you need to understand and acronyms you need to understand and changing regulatory items, it's easy to go to the comfort zone. It is. And, you know, what I found is as part of this, you know, there's a maturity, right? This is security maturity. 

We all have to mature our security skillsets because it's a $2 trillion market for cybersecurity products and services that's being underserved by 10 times. That's the market opportunity that we have in front of us. And so there's this understanding of the customer, most importantly, and that combined with the threat actor and what the threat actors are doing now. 

And from a customer perspective, and this is where we help and we teach partners this approach where there's almost a sense of red team, where you're kind of the adversary playing that role for your customer, where you're thinking about the customer and their business. You know, what do they operate? What do they do? What do they deliver? What products, goods, services do they deliver? What sensitive, you know, confidential information do they have? Because that combines with what the threat actors are doing now. They're not just getting in crypto locker, you know, ransom wearing and getting in the middle and changing numbers. 

No. What they've done now is they learn the power of getting data that can destroy the business. And so they want to get in and find that data, that critical sensitive data. 

So in that kind of red team, you know, threat actor adversary approach that the MSPs take with their customers, you want to know where their crown jewels are, what critical systems, what critical infrastructure, what critical messaging, what critical intellectual property. And as part of that, you know, you know what you need to protect. Then you can design the strategy around how you're going to protect that. 

Then you get into the workforce. How are they connecting to those things? Who are the weakest links? And so you can start to shape a security strategy, not a tool set, not a tool for this and a tool for that. It needs to be a security strategy that you can demonstrate you did your job to protect the workforce, protect the key critical systems, to protect that confidential information.

Right. Now, from the MSP perspective, the word tool set just, you know, came out at me because in a sense, that's what we're being told that, all right, here's a tool set, this will fix your cybersecurity. And we're not understanding why, in a sense. 

And so part of me sometimes wants to ask the question, you mentioned that we have to understand what we need to protect. The question of how do we need to protect it always is a frustrating thing to me because it's like, okay, what are the possible points of entry? Like, what is it that I have to think about? Because I don't want to think like a hacker. Yeah. 

But almost, it's almost to the point where we have to do that. It helps with that consultative approach you have with your customer to help them educate them and help them understand. Right. 

And I think the tools and tech piece, we've been addicted to tools. Yeah. All of us. 

There's a lot of money behind the service provider MSP tool set industry. There's a lot of money behind it. There is. 

And with multiple tools, there's a lot to learn. There's a lot to manage. And so what you mentioned earlier is how do you know where your gaps are in coverage? Right.

Right. How do you know? Well, first of all, you have to see what's going on. You have to see what's happening. 

You have your RMM, right, which is an important tool to understand what's happening from an endpoint network and patching and updating and all those type of things. But what we're seeing that's helping you with those gap analysis is your new RMM for cybersecurity, which is SIEM. SIEM is your monitoring for every single security event across your whole customer's digital ecosystem. 

That's going to help you determine and find the gaps because you can know where users and how users are connecting to different things and who is that weakest link that has access to a system that shouldn't have access to a system, things like that. But it needs to get to where we have a security strategy versus a tool set, because I'll tell you, frankly, and this might sound crazy, but I did over 200 customer presentations with our partners last year, over 200. It sounds like a lot. 

It was a lot. You, yourself? Myself with them. I would go on stage at events. 

I would put my calendar link up and I would say, book me. Let's go. You got a customer.

I was at PAX 8 event. There was three, five different folks. I said, same thing. 

Book me. I want to show you how to sell to SMB. I want to show you how to sell to mid-market.

And as part of that, I would share, we're not going to say tools. We're not going to say an acronym. We're not going to talk tech. 

We're not going to tell them things. We're going to educate the customer on what's happening, what they have to lose, based on a little bit of research, a little bit of that red team stuff I was talking about, and then show them how we're going to protect them because we have to. And so that process, it illuminated the customer to like, I'm now in a position to accept that important responsibility to do the right thing and protect my business and the MSP to go, ah, tools, tech, telling. 

That's not cybersecurity. That's the way I was selling when I was selling IT services. Cybersecurity is that consultative, I need to do my job and protect your business and objectively show and data that I did so.

That's my job now. So I don't know if I got to the question. I don't remember the question, but hopefully that was helpful. 

That's a start. I mean, that's a big part of it. So you were talking about, you know, SIEM, and then that's another term that we get confused a lot, SIEM and SOC and, you know, internal, external and all this stuff. 

But you mentioned the fact of using SIEM to know the entire infrastructure. Sure. Because a lot of us came from the standpoint of SIEM was only related to our firewall or, you know, uploading logs because we don't want to look at the logs or the event IDs and stuff. 

But part of this sounds like some of the stuff where there's the vulnerability scanning that needs to happen inside of a network. Continuously. Continuous. 

Yeah. Which I am doing, by the way. Don't email me. 

But there seems to be more than that because now it's not just doing that. It's aligning the environment against the framework. Sure. 

100 percent. Right. So and just to describe, you know, a security posture that gives you all the effective policies and controls and locking systems down. 

Right. And this is just a little taste of the SMB message, the SMB kind of sales approach and how, you know, MSPs can talk to their customers is everybody has an endpoint. Right. 

They have a Windows or they have a Mac device, they have Android, they have iOS, whatever it is, they have an endpoint. We need to protect that endpoint. Right. 

And that's where you get into the EDRs and the next gen AVs. You want to make sure somebody doesn't jam some uglies into it, dirty up the machine. But then the next thing is everybody's got organizational systems. 

They may have a file share on the network. They may have systems in the cloud. They have Microsoft. 

They have Google Workspace. They have QuickBooks online. They have all these different systems. 

They have printers and scanners on the network, on the office. Yeah. They have all these locations and things like that. 

First and foremost, we want to help separate that customer from the Internet. The Internet is where the threat actor gets access to you and your business and all your systems and your endpoints and your users. You put them in a zero-trust network. 

Right. SASE, Secure Access Service Edge, zero-trust network, and you lock down the Microsoft ecosystem. You lock down the Google ecosystem. 

You lock down the SaaS applications. All of the infrastructure on a local area network is inaccessible from the Internet. That's going to knock out 80% of risk surface area because a threat actor can't touch you now. 

Right. Then it's the system that ingests all those datasets from the endpoint, from the network, from the SaaS, from the cloud to threat hunt against it for insider risk, CVEs, IOCs, all these different things that are going on. People downloading, deleting, and forwarding too much, or they access things they probably shouldn't. 

Business wants to know that. Then outsider risk, who's trying to get in the door. Right. 

To us, that's a scene. Right. You don't need to describe it as a scene. 

This is our system that ingests the data to threat hunt against it, whether insider or outsider. It's how we report back to you. We protect the business.

The last piece is the SOC because when that event happens, you need somebody that's up at two o'clock in the morning to take it down. That's the 24-7 security operations team to take down the adversaries when they pop. Okay. 

With that, you sold a whole security strategy to the customer without talking about tools, tech, or acronyms. When you make it contextual to, they have Microsoft, they have a donor data system, they have a manufacturing system, and you make it contextual to their world, they can begin to understand it. Okay. 

Let me throw this at you, unrehearsed folks. I went to the lengths of trying to come up with an analogy that they would understand in terms of protecting their data and their network. I said, let's talk about your house. 

Yes. You want to protect what's in your home, your family, your valuables, and you think that in the old days that just locking the door was enough. Yeah. 

Okay. Then we had to start adding alarms. Then we started adding cameras to our homes. 

Then we went to gated communities. Yes. So that now it wasn't just your home, your community, people couldn't just come in without going through a guard or entering a code to get in and stuff like that. 

Then you would have patrols inside that neighborhood. How does that sound as an analogy? I love it. I love it. 

So a few things. So zero trust networking would block out from Google Earth the ability to see that neighborhood. Okay. 

Right. Your SIEM, SIEM is very important. So imagine if there's a fire at that community and you have to call five engines, where do you go? SIEM is going to tell you where to go. 

SIEM is going to be the radio frequencies that all the fire engines, those five fire engines can all listen to on the same thing so they can attack the problem. Right. Which is really a foundational benefit of everybody that works on supporting the customer to go put out a fire needs to be on the same radio frequency. 

They need to be looking at the same dataset. Okay. They have to be hearing the same words and same where the problem is so they can all action the hotspot together. 

And that's where we've seen with the over tooling, the siloed and the fragmentation take place. Right. And we all know time is our enemy for a variety of reasons, but time is our enemy because threat actors weaponize that against us. 

How fast do they get access? How fast do we see and how fast do we take them down? But if we have the data and the endpoint and the network and the cloud and the SaaS and all the teams are working in concert, looking at the same dataset, they can put out the fire faster together. That's the value point that I've seen. All right. 

So we've had a nice little discussion here. So five years has it been? Yes. All right. 

So what's different now for you than when you started that you were like, I didn't see this coming? I think it's a few things. One of the people. Okay. 

Amazing people, right? Just it's hard to imagine the team members you get to work with. It's hard to imagine the volume of partners you get to work with and the people you get to work with, with a common mission together, protect as many customers as fast as possible together. Yeah. 

I think that in itself is a big one because the alignment of what Total's doing with our partners and what our partners are trying to accomplish and that synergistic kind of intensity of focus to go protect customers. I wasn't imagining that. I was imagining building cool technology and having great success in the conditions the way we are, because that's the big thing. 

We haven't seen what threat actors are eventually going to pivot to. And we all know the big threat of AI and what that risk is going to bring and the efficiency gains they're going to operate off of with AI. But we're here to help adapt with that. 

And it's exciting. Okay. So I know you're going to be here because I read recently that you guys got some money.

Yeah, a little bit. So that is nice. And you've got some initiatives that you are, I don't want to say all in on because you've obviously been all in since the beginning but tell me about SOAR. 

And forgive me, I can't remember exactly what it stands for. Sure. Security, orchestration, automation, and response. 

So what's excited about SOAR is how we're taking security response to the next level and automating actions. So when you think about automation, you get conditions, if this, then that, attributes of when something falls in scope for a particular type of action needed, you're able to determine what that action is and it'll do it automatically for you. So in scaling an effective cybersecurity program, you see different trends, different activities, and that's a whole important part about baselining the usage of all your systems. 

And then it's looking for anomalous type activities. So then when an anomalous activity happens, like a business email compromise, that has specific attributes, certain things that trigger that if it looks like, and smells like, and is, we want it to automatically shut down that email box as an example. So for the efficiency, because remember, time is our enemy with a threat actor. 

We want to see it as fast as possible so we can take it down as fast as possible. The more time a threat actor has to dwell, the more damage can be done and more data that could leave. Right. 

Now, I saw this where this is something that kind of was added to all total users at no additional cost, but is it like a different add-on module? Is it AI? What exactly? It's included with our Banner Detection and Response Service and we will be including it as a standalone as well. Okay. But when you are planning your customer's defenses, right, and you're looking at what you have to be worried about, Microsoft, Endpoint, and other things, it's part of that planning process.

So when you think about the biggest risks, the biggest issues, business email compromise is still very top of the list. Let's eliminate that big worry first. And that's going to be one of the strategies to do that. 

Okay. All right. I'm going to shift again. 

Sure. Because I'm sorry. My mind is going, but I'm looking at the building and if we came here, it's one of the historic buildings here. 

So I want to ask, were you guys here in Denver when you started the company? No, we were in New York City. Okay. Yeah. 

So we moved out in New York City during COVID and moved to Denver, Colorado and saw it as a good home base to grow from. Whose idea was it to come to Denver? It was democratic. We all voted.

Really? Yeah. Our original investors told us of the cities we couldn't go to, right? Some of the major metros that are pretty cost prohibitive in a way, right? And this was one of the destinations that fit the bill. Okay. 

Because this building is kind of unique. It's an old, what was it, a painter's? Paper mill. Paper mill. 

Yeah. So this was a historic paper. There's a paper original signage on the outside of the building. 

That you left. That we left. It had some cover character. 

Yeah. It's fun. Another unique factor for our business is we are all 100% in office. 

Every day, everybody's here. Every day. We're being told not to be in office.

Isn't that the channel motto right now? Well, there's a special ingredient here and that is collaboration with each other, right? That real-time in-person collaboration is so essential to the velocity of the growth. It is. We were able to solve problems, find answers, go work together to go help our partners be successful quickly. 

Well, I will say this. So when I walked into your office, we went to, what was it, the engineering floor first and everybody's in there. Everybody's working. 

Now it was quiet, but I like the fact that they're all there. And like you said, if something comes up and you need to collaborate, it can be done right there. Immediacy. 

It's here. It's life. The team knows it. 

We live it and we love it. Okay. So yeah. 

So I just had to get the question out about the building and the location and stuff. You're, what is it, two blocks from Coors Field? Yeah. We're close to everything. 

So the ball arena where the Nuggets and the Avalanche everybody play. Yes. And of course the ballpark. 

And yeah, there's a lot nearby. All right. Sorry, that was a huge derailment, but it's all happening. 

All right. So back to, let's go ahead and talk about total. So for instance, I did disclose I'm not a partner, but when I was looking at the stuff and I, how long have we talked to Lucas? Like six months? He's been patient with me, all that stuff. 

So of course the VPN, secure access was one thing, the seam and stuff. But in terms of, I guess, I understand the overall strategy. Sure. 

Protect the customer and it's almost like a total protection package that you guys are building. Absolutely. Do I say single pane of glass? It is single pane of glass. 

Okay. Everything is, it's one agent, right? And it all interoperates and works better together. So it's unifying networking and security together. 

And so partners that have really good networking skill sets, right? They understand Meraki and FortiGate and Palo Alto and all those great firewalls. It's policy controlling and locking down. It's observability. 

So then now they get to learn cybersecurity in one platform. That's the real kind of magic moment, as being able to take your skill set of networking and then learn cybersecurity, because it all happens on the network. It all happens at the edge. 

It all happens in the cloud. Now we're bringing it all together to policy control, lock it down. Right. 

And you mentioned when we talked about SOAR, that it may be standalone. All of these products can be individual. Yes. 

Or they can be a total suite. You can apply it all together, roll it out in one shot. You can roll out pieces and we integrate and operate with other platforms, other tool sets, other solutions. 

So we integrate with the other endpoint protections and other networking solutions and so on. Yeah. I saw that you guys do the 365 stuff. 

I saw IT Glue. Because I look for the integration. So I'm going to consider somebody. 

How is it going to mess up what I already have and stuff? So very nice. So what haven't I asked you that you're dying to say? I love that question. Great question, Marvin. 

I mean, I'm here, we're live. Why Total's a great partner? Okay. And, you know, I talked to a few partners this morning. 

I talk to partners every day, all day long. Okay. They all have my cell phone. 

Same cell phone number since the 90s. Really? And I'm accessible. We're all accessible. 

Every single one of our team members are accessible. We're not a vendor. We are a true partner. 

And most of the MSPs, yeah, they're jaded. They've heard that before. But it's real. 

I've been in the trenches. I know what it's like to make payroll as an MSP CEO and owner, right? I know how hard that is. I know how hard it is when you lose your biggest client and you have to have the tough decisions and discussions with your employees because you might have to let someone go, right? I know all that stuff.

And the team, what we've hired and recruited is other industry veterans, other people that understand the issues that our MSP owners and leaders walk in. They know what it's like also, from our support desk to our technical account management team, from our strategic account management team. So we have this context, this shared experience. 

So we want to help make that pivot from the IT services world to security forward, security first, because that is the absolute business direction. We're security. All of us. 

All of us are. And we have to go protect our customers. It's our duty. 

We have to go protect them. And we need to do it quickly because the adversaries have only gotten better and have only increased in their volume of attacks. So in that common mission now, how can we help you go to market? How can we help you sell? How can we help you operationalize the security program you need to have in place so you can scale your business and grow your business, protect your home base, protect your client base, now grow and scale, and we'll help you do that too.

All right. I'm going to ask this question, and I hope it's not insulting. But do you guys have like minimums? Do you guys have a certain MSP that is your niche in terms of size, endpoints? Yeah, it's a wide range. 

And I'll tell you, we have a minimum right now. But we listen to the market. We want to be as extremely channel friendly as we possibly can to the market.

Originally, we created a minimum of $250 per month, right? So that was the original kind of doesn't sound like a lot. It's not. It's a few points for a particular customer scenario.

Sorry, the question. I went a little. Do you have a niche size, a minimum? Yes.

Everybody. Everybody. From one user, from one MSP getting to 150 endpoints, where now they need to look at hiring another one so they can get to 300 to 500, and they can continue to grow and scale to the mega, to the very large. 

There's no sweet spot. We want to make this platform accessible to all. Everybody. 

Everybody has got to protect customers. Everybody needs to be involved in it. So it's really full scope from the largest out there in the world that we have many of to the ones just starting. 

Yeah, I asked that because I'm in a unique situation where I'm kind of in between not the solo startup, but I'm not the million dollar MSP. And I do qualify for a lot of the minimums, but a lot of my listeners don't. So I always have to ask and all of that. 

All right. Well, let me see. All the products. 

So your MDR as well is a product. Seam, sock, security perimeter. Now that's different than the VPN. 

Secure remote access, right? It is. So secure remote access, that's SASE from Gardner, and then Zero Trust Networking, that's from Forrester. Those two concepts are brought together. 

But the easiest way I explain it to customers and to partners is we have to separate your business from the internet. That's how threat actors get access to you. And we have a very unique setup in the way we designed it in the 80 page patent on our SASE Zero Trust Networking platform. 

40 points of presence around the world in the internet exchange points with a dark fiber backbone with all of those next gen layer seven firewall capabilities that go wherever you go. All the DNS filtering and the IDS and IPS and SSL inspection, deep packet inspection, content. All these things are always on and the user doesn't know. 

It just works. That's what I should have asked you. The firewall aspect. 

Now I'm assuming that's firewall in the cloud. Yeah, it's firewall wherever the user goes, correct? So you can policy and control and content filter and design access and routing and all those things you want to do to design the network that is right for the usage of the users. Okay. 

Based on the endpoint, based on the group, based on the access. Identity, machine name, group, you name it. All right. 

Hey Lucas, we're going to have to chat soon. All right. Well Darrin, this has been good. 

I appreciate your time and inviting me here to the office. Absolutely. Thank you, Marvin. 

And I got to see a lot of the folks around here. They all seem pretty happy. Yeah, everyone. 

I hope you didn't Kool-Aid them today. No, no special Kool-Aid today, but it's an exciting, fun journey that we're on. And how long do you think you'll keep doing this? We can get as big as we possibly can because we're doing it right. 

We're doing what it's meant to be is easier, faster, more comprehensive, and more cost-effective. That's our objective. So we feel we can go eat more and more market, more and more market, help more and more partners be more successful. 

Okay, well let me ask this. We're not ending the interview. So you got the additional monies, you got the SOAR aspect. 

Do you have a longer-term roadmap or are you just kind of addressing things as they come? No, we have a long-term roadmap for sure. So a couple of things. One, going deep in what we do now, making sure we get the experience beautiful and awesome, and then any of those rough edges smoothed out and tightened up, and then going a little broader, right? And then going a little bit broader and getting deeper in the domains that we're operating. 

So yes, it's very robust and an exciting roadmap. Okay. Ties in a 365 identity and all that stuff? Yeah, Microsoft and Google Workspace, if you have Google Workspace, and also from an identity provider perspective, Duo, I mean all these different systems, we want to be where the partner is and with their all myriad of customer environment weirdness, right? Because you could have everything in a customer. 

Whenever you talk to an MSP, they're like, yeah, I do it all and I touch it all, and that's true. So we wanted to make sure we played in all the systems and cloud services that most folks operate. Sounds good.

So there you have it, folks. We are here at Total, and I gleaned as much information as I could out of them. So thank you very much again for your time. 

Absolutely. Thank you, Marvin. Nice to be here, and we'll be seeing you guys a lot soon. 

Beautiful. All right, folks, that's going to do it here. I'll be heading away from Denver after this, and we'll see you guys back next week with a live show, and until then, holla!