678 The Evolution of RMM: NinjaOne

[Uncle Marv]
Hello friends, Uncle Marv here with another episode of the IT Business Podcast powered by NetAlly. This is the show where we try to help managed service providers and IT solution providers run their business better, smarter, and faster. From time to time, we do that by chatting with all of the companies and tools that help us do that, and today we are going to be visiting with NinjaOne, a leading provider of endpoint management and security solutions for IT departments and managed service providers.

I know that several of my friends have been jumping over to NinjaOne, so it's about time we get them on the show, and I am joined by the new channel chief there, Joe Lohmeyer. Joe, how are you?

[Joe Lohmeier]
Great. Thank you, Marvin. Excellent.

Excited to be here.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. Well, I figure it's about time we had you guys on. I mean, you guys are making a ton of strides here and you yourself was actually named, what, one of the top channel chiefs of 2024?

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yeah. Everything NinjaOne's building around the channel program, CRN recognized us for the program we're building, gave us a five-star partner program, as well as recognizing some of our leadership and women in IT as well in the channel, so we've had several things in CRN lately.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. Now, most people will remember you guys as just simply NinjaRMM, but you recently rebranded to NinjaOne and now are a lot more inclusive of, you know, the RMM, backup, patch management, endpoint monitoring, all those things, so sounds like things are coming together.

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yeah, they really are, Marvin. I'll say that, you know, the NinjaOne in itself, to oversimplify it, is a platform, and you look at our roots in the MSP market of NinjaRMM, we haven't lost any of that, remote monitoring and management, but this platform has really given us the ability to cross from MSP to internal IT departments with the shift we saw in 2020 with remote and hybrid. This platform, you know, not to overuse single pane of glass, but it truly is, from our integrations to everything you're doing to secure those endpoints, NinjaOne, I know we'll get to it, but just seeing massive growth, massive adoption in this new platform.

[Uncle Marv]
Yeah, it looks really nice, and like I said, a lot of my friends have started moving over. So let's see here, that rebranding was in 2021. When did you actually start with Ninja?

[Joe Lohmeier]
So I joined in 2022 in December, so I've been here a little over a year and a half.

[Uncle Marv]
Okay.

[Joe Lohmeier]
And, you know, Marvin, the way I got to Ninja was actually from my time in the IT industry since 1998, spent 12 years plus at Cisco, ran the Americas for VMware. I started asking customers when I was deciding to make a change of, hey, where would you go? Like, what's the hot product out there?

What are you hearing? And I kept hearing from customers and partners, take a look at NinjaOne, and the more I peeled back the sheets on this company from just what they're doing from a customer sat perspective, not just technology is one thing, but having that maniacal focus on customer sat and taking care of the MSPs and the internal IT customers is really what attracted me to come over to NinjaOne.

[Uncle Marv]
I was going to say, one of the questions I probably should have put in the list for you to prepare for is, how would you leave a place like Cisco or VMware to come over to? Oh, and Avaya, right? You were at Avaya.

So those are some pretty big companies. Ninja, not so big. What was it that made you make that jump?

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yeah. It was really the innovation at NinjaOne that I was hearing out there in the market, where they were, the growth trajectory of the company. It really fit.

I really, I wanted one last stop in technology and having started off at parametric technology, the CAD CAM software, Cisco recruited me over there, then VMware, is really going to a place where I felt would be a generational technology company to go like, I joined it when, and I really feel like NinjaOne is that. One of the things I tell partners when I go out to them is, I'm more excited about what NinjaOne's doing on unified endpoint management than I was about virtualization or a lot of the things you saw, Cisco transformed the world in IP telephony and those things. I think this is the next wave and it's really exciting.

It's fun to be at. And then culturally, what Sal and Chris and the other founders have built here is really a family-oriented feel and in zero hierarchy. So you could be a new employee at NinjaOne, doesn't matter your role, Sal, our CEO could grab you, take you to coffee, ask you how it's going and what recommendations you have.

And so that really attracted me, getting back to that small feel with hyper growth.

[Uncle Marv]
Nice, nice. Something else I didn't prepare you for, I noticed on the website that it actually says you were rated the number one RMM for 20 consecutive quarters, five years in a row. So I want to ask two-part question.

How does that feel and what do you think were some of the deciding factors in pushing that type of recognition?

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yeah, that's a great question, Marvin. I would say it's really exciting to see the recognition we're getting because of the passion we put towards the user interface and usability of our products. So I think what gets us that is threefold.

Number one is our responsiveness. You have an issue with our product, you're going to get a live person at Austin or Tampa on the phone who's going to fix your problems, address it. We've got, if you're over in Europe, our MI office in Berlin, or if you're in Asia-Pac and Sydney, you're going to get a live person to address that in less than 30 minutes.

I think our CSAT score shows that. So second would just be that again, that focus that you and I talked about at the start of this that attracted me was we will always make it right at Ninja One. So that would be number two.

And then product innovation. We're a builder, not a buyer. So far, I'm not going to rule out anything, but we build our product.

We don't pre-release anything unless we're confident the user experience is going to be fantastic. And we listen to our customers. When you see our new product releases, it's driven by those loyal MSPs that we've been servicing for years.

And in addition to our new internal IT customers that we've been gaining at rapid pace with over 17,000 customers today, really listening. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. We really see mass market opportunity ahead of us as well.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. So normally I would go into talk about your product and services, blah, blah, blah. But I really want to get to the core of what I think has happened recently is you guys have kind of revamped, retooled the partner program specifically for IT providers.

So let's talk about that a bit. What were the big changes for you?

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yeah, great question, Marvin. The Ninja One Now program, and the now is really Ninja One winning together with our partners. And so Ninja One Now, what we wanted to do was really make it simple, regardless of your size for an internal IT, reseller, VAR, hyperscaler, whoever you are, partnering with us needed to be easy and it also needed to make a huge value for your customers.

So in our partner program, we've created a partner portal that's got self-propelled learning, certifications for partners, access to tools and demos and all the things as a provider. You have so many and we get the challenges today's channel is presented with them. When I say channel, I mean MSPs, I mean your VAR resellers, your service integrators, to be able to take the mass product solutions and technologies today to offer true value to your customers jointly.

We wanted to make that seamless. We want to make that easy and offer world class solutions in the platform we talked about. And I think the other thing that's really tipping it and why the timing was right to create a global partner program with all the things that are offered in that portal and all the tools for our partners to be successful was the timing of all our integrations out there with world class endpoint security companies is really a great solution for the partners to take care of their customers, but also acquire new customers. You know, we're getting anywhere from 600, 800 new logos every month, new customers every month. And that's through our partner community, 100 percent.

[Uncle Marv]
OK, so in regard to just, you know, the simple partnership plan there, are you doing anything specifically to help MSPs in terms of, you know, bolstering their business, identifying partners and potential clients and stuff like that? Or is this just simply a partner program to help us get pricing so that we can help our customers?

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yeah, I would say it's all flavors of that. But we have built a machine. Ninja One is super impressive on our marketing.

So we are out there helping our marketing spend when we get inbound leads, helping disseminate what does that go to? You know, is it are you working with MSP? Are you working with a partner?

Are the first questions we'll ask the customers that come inbound us and inbound when I say customers also mean the partners that are coming inbound, the number one global distributors that are carrying our products and the number one bars and resellers and number one MSPs that are coming to us today, how we service them. That Ninja machine, that marketing machine of awareness, customer satisfaction, demos, technical support, they're able to leverage all of that. And so I think that's why you're seeing the CRN recognition, mass partner adoption is we make it super simple to do business with that ease of business was our number one focus on the Ninja One Now program, not just to give you the resources and offer incentives and trainings like everyone else does.

We wanted to be different. So you'll see there's things we're going to be doing in July, August, September that are exciting and new in the partner community. You'll see some announcements coming and just activities we have planned out there to really create the buzz and for them to leverage the Ninja One machine and of customer satin resources.

[Uncle Marv]
Right. So I have to recognize and let people know that, you know, Ninja One is not strictly for MSPs. You guys serve as other clients as well.

Are there differences in the platform for a regular, you know, SMB business to come to you versus an MSP partner coming to you?

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yeah. So today, you know, coming from our roots as Ninja RNN that you recognize, Marvin, we still have that multi-tenancy platform where they can service their customers. The MSPs can service their customers, leverage our resource tools.

And then if you're a small reseller, VAR, you can come to us on a resale side, sell two. And we actually just created new SKUs for that, too. So but the platform, really the same robustness.

There's nothing changing in that platform other than the MSP being the end user, really servicing their clients in that multi-tenant environment.

[Uncle Marv]
Okay. All right. So, folks, there you have NinjaOne.com.

Of course, you can go there and just click on the Partners button and you'll see that you can sign up as a, you know, a VAR, an MSP. Technology Alliance Partners, I'm assuming those are the big boys, right? Yep, absolutely.

I'll be sure not to check that. So let's go ahead and go back now and talk about the product itself. Like I said, most of us know it as just the RMM.

And I think when I last looked at it and it was probably around 2017 or so, I know that patch management was there. I think you had just introduced MDM, mobile device management. What are some features in there now that people may not remember from days gone past?

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yeah, you know, the way to oversimplify it when we're talking or launching a new partner is talking to their customers like, hey, you know, with the mass remote work, with just the growing pace of endpoints and the riskiness of endpoints is how do you how do you manage those to decrease complexity, lower your costs of managing IT? And how do you get more productive in that while you're doing that? And that's where you'll see our platform growing with the recommendations of those MSPs in that.

And I would say the biggest things are patching, like you mentioned, still today, any software deployment you're doing today. And then the security integrations, getting that endpoint data to feed SOCKS and all your vulnerability type companies, that endpoint management, making sure your endpoints are secured. But MDM moves us beyond the unified endpoint management, having all the mobile devices, being able to integrate this all in one platform.

And when you look at our, when we say an integration, you could take your other type of companies that we integrate that into our platform. So it's one view for those that are managing either their clients from an MSP perspective or the IT departments that are their own MSPs internally. But I think you nailed it on.

It's still the patching. It's still software deployment and then MDM and then all the security integrations today. Remote access is really big for us.

We're seeing remote really growing as well. Backup. So you're seeing our platform really service.

And what's great about our platform I love is truly what the smallest businesses can leverage technologies out of our platform and so can the enterprise. So it's really built from the bottom up on servicing all types of clients across the board. It's not like fitting in one niche.

Ninja One is really growing that platform to service the needs of the customer, small, medium and large today.

[Uncle Marv]
So I was going to ask you about the integrations slash partnerships to understand where they lie, because a lot of times when we're looking at platforms, integrations are just, you know, either, you know, a link to an existing portal. If you're set up with that, some of them are starting to do full API integration. So how much of the integration is stuff that we can do inside of the RMM?

So if I wanted to add on one of the security providers, can I just add it on from there or do I need to have a partnership with them first and then just merge it in?

[Joe Lohmeier]
So you can do it both ways if you're a partner or an MSP. So I'll give you a perfect example, Marvin. We've got some cybersecurity partners, some national, some more regional based partners who say their number one Ninja customers are selling the integration to the current Sentinel One base that they have, the CrowdStrike base.

So those integrations are seamless into that. So that's how they're selling more Ninja One from a Greenfield perspective, going to someone who maybe doesn't have CrowdStrike, Sentinel One, Bitdefender, those types of integrations today, going to there from a Greenfield, showing them the robustness. If you get this platform, here's what plugs into it.

So you're seeing it come from both directions. But from the partners I'm hearing from today, large and small, is their number one Ninja customers go after those already using, you know, going after some of those integration plays and have that ease of use in our platform today.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. So I can open up, you mentioned Sentinel One. I was thinking of like Bitdefender, some of the others that you're tied with.

I can literally go into my Ninja dashboard and fully do what I would normally do with those products inside the dashboard.

[Joe Lohmeier]
Correct. Absolutely. In one place.

Yeah. And Martin, the other thing, too, is talking about how to service the customers and customer sat. Another thing I love about Ninja One, we have our own ticketing platform, but we're building, and this is in our roadmap you can see on our website, ServiceNow integration.

So if our ticketing, if you're a large, large enterprise, we're like, OK, it's better suited, maybe we'll use the integration. But if you're an SMB, you're like, that's too robust for me today, perhaps. So we're really looking at customer sat in our builds and our integrations.

And even if an integration might have some overlap that benefits the customer, the partner, the MSP, you're going to see Ninja One thoughtfully do those APIs, make those integrations for the benefit of customer sat and usability of our of our platform.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. So, of course, the question that is very hot, very popular now is the subject of AI. And are you guys implementing any AI in your platform?

[Joe Lohmeier]
So it's AI. Yeah, that's all the buzz, right, Marvin? I like, so, you know, our scripting and our customer sat we take very, very seriously.

So we're looking at it as a crawl, walk, run when it comes to AI. What we're seeing is AI can get it right. You know, sometimes it might get it right in scripting.

Sometimes it might get it 80 percent right. You're still going to have to do some things. Our platform, you can leverage other scripts and other things.

We'll make recommendations. But from an AI perspective, we're really being cautious about that so we don't expose endpoint. When you look at a unified endpoint management, you know, that's a huge risk for a company.

And so we're taking a very thoughtful approach to AI as we look at it and definitely recommending some of the other platforms that are like, here's the AI plugin, go. So there's, you know, there's disclaimers in that. And we're very thoughtful about which ones, which scripts to use and where we are in that.

And you can always, you know, everyone can use AI, but we're definitely taking a very thoughtful approach. And I would say. As Sal builds the products from a customer set point, make sure we do it right when we do that.

[Uncle Marv]
OK, I want to go back to I was mentioning we talked about the partner program, which technically you guys had a press release at the end of June about that. You also had some announcement about a free certification program. Is that something that MSPs can leverage or was that aimed at IT departments?

[Joe Lohmeier]
So both can leverage that question. So currently it was a customer base. And so MSPs, because we don't have visibility to who they're servicing on the platform, we really built again, like you mentioned earlier on here, built and bred out of the MSP world.

So we consider the MSP our customer. And so they can do those free certs, do the certifications and get the badging for, you know, for their profiles on LinkedIn and all that. If you're an end user customer, same thing.

And then in the partner portal, if you're an engineer or sales rep or solution architect at one of our resellers or hyperscalers, you can also do that. That's coming out, I believe, later this July, maybe early August on that. Can confirm with our enablement team that they are building all of that out across.

However, you come across Ninja One, MSP, VAR, customer, you're going to be able to access those certs.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. And become a certified IT ninja.

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yes.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. So let me let me kind of go sideways here and ask a question that, you you've now had a couple of years to talk to MSPs, you guys have been getting involvement and feedback throughout the time. What do you think is probably our biggest challenge when it comes to MSPs, you know, that we're facing today?

And has Ninja One, you know, positioned themselves to help us solve it?

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yeah, that's a great question. I would just say the there's more in points than ever. Increasingly vulnerable and risky.

Right. And they're being the MSP world is being held accountable when someone partners with the MSP is my protection, my insurance policy. They expect you to bring greatness and customer sat and service and the latest IT solutions to make sure those implants are secure.

And I would say looking at our new releases, looking at our product roadmap, our current integrations, you're seeing Ninja One follow the MSP world's recommendations of where they need help, what customers are saying. And I don't think anybody secures endpoints better at scale than Ninja One today with our MSPs.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. So at scale. So there's a part of me that remembers Ninja as kind of like the RMM for the small MSP, you know, the emerging solo tech, small business.

You make it sound as though enterprises now can utilize Ninja and the super MSP, I guess, to call it. So we're talking companies that have 10,000 in points.

[Joe Lohmeier]
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. We had some public press releases around Team Logic doing over 100000 in points.

We've had large enterprise customers just we just closed out. We still keep the MSP RMM spirit. We're a monthly company in June.

Numerous large enterprise customers. You'll see some nice press releases coming out with those customer brands. Ten thousand plus endpoints.

A lot of those happened just last month. I'm up to the four. Our Q2 was really strong in the mid-market and enterprise space, seeing more and more adoption up there because of our integrations, because of the product unlocks, as our CEO likes to call them.

When we do those mindfully and thoughtfully, we're getting scale. And not only is the solution great on a customer sat in a platform perspective, but super competitive on pricing, too.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. So you said monthly just about a minute ago. So I wanted to ask, does that mean you're talking monthly commitments, no annual commitments?

[Joe Lohmeier]
So you'll see us do both. So a lot of the MSPs in the MSP in the internal IT world, you'll see in the customers want to do ARRs and annual commitments, if not multi years. And we're really in that internal IT world.

We're really quick to once they trial our product and pair it up in a bake off and get to use it. You're seeing 75 percent of those customers in trial become customers. And in the MSP world, you know, from a customer sat to the MSP world, there's a lot more monthly contracts just based on the challenges they're seeing on a monthly basis and how they work with their customers today.

So you'll see us do both. But mainly we're seeing a massive increase in annual recurring contracts for sure.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. I assume it comes with a discount. Why?

That's why that would be, right? Yes, that's right. All right.

So here's the question now, I guess, is, you know, we talked about a lot about MSPs and you guys do a lot of internal IT stuff. Are there different trends that the internal IT departments are dealing with versus us as managed services? Do you do you see a huge difference?

[Joe Lohmeier]
That's interesting. We just had our we had a partner advisory council in Montana. I'm actually up there right now.

And it's a little cooler here than Florida, Marvin. And we had MSPs there. We had some MSPs in the internally with hyperscalers.

They're your big, large cloud companies, as well as largest distributor and cybersecurity, largest sled aggregator there. And you're really seeing the same challenges. I would say the biggest challenge I'm seeing in the MSP space today, hearing from pure MSP companies, you're seeing a lot of the VARs.

They have their managed service arm customers. We have a lot of MSPs coming just going, can I resell? A lot of research going, hey, I want to offer as a managed service.

How that customer consumes, I think, is getting more and more blended today. And I think that's a big challenge shift you're seeing that both your, you know, the standard resale model distributor model on sell through versus managing that service, that software for the client. You're seeing that client want to test consumption both ways.

And those companies having to kind of go on that journey because of customer demand on that. And I think that that's an interesting challenge. But that's why you saw Ninja pivot to the Ninja One platform, have an MSP SKU as well as a reseller SKU to fit that need and service those clients that way.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. Yeah. Customers are getting they're getting smart about our industry.

Yeah. And they are definitely challenging us in terms of, you know, not just consumption, but just in the tools that we use. They know that, you know, we're using RMM tools.

They know that we're using platforms. They know the names now. So interesting.

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yeah. You know, to add to that, one of the interesting thing, you know, thinking of the MSP world and you look at Ninja starting as Ninja RMM, when you hear us say, hey, we have 17000 plus customers, little over half of those are MSPs. So really, if you talk about how many end users MSPs are serving, it becomes an exponential people leveraging the benefits of Ninja One platform today because a lot of those MSPs, as you know, you know, multiple, you know, tens, if not hundreds of customers, thousands of customers they're servicing in their managed service environment today.

But we'll count that managed service provider as one customer. So that's that growth that we're not seeing that slow down at all. We thought, you know, really with when you saw more remote and hybrid and a lot of internal IT departments being their own managed service provider, you thought you might see the managed service providers be really challenged and pushed.

They always are. But that's growing at a rapid pace still today. Hasn't slowed for us at all at Ninja One and our and our internal IT business is also growing.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. So there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. Ninja One managed patch and support all of your endpoints.

And the company is doing good. So you guys have. Was it seven million plus endpoints total?

And in 80 countries, that's a lot.

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yeah, no, Martin, great point. One of the really what customers love about us is we're in numerous languages with data centers, you know, with data centers that follow the globe, follow the clock and really built it. Unlike other companies, you see a lot, you know, really North American based and then rest.

Eighty five percent of your business coming North American based. Fifteen percent rest of the world. We're really healthy.

Sixty, forty, sixty five, thirty five mix. And so we really thoughtfully built out a global technology solution to service those markets. And that's why you saw us launch Ninja One now as a global partner program for and we're seeing mass.

We really just, you know, our APAC and EMEA teams mass adoption there as well. And we really just started those in the last year because we really kicked it off here in North America.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. Twenty three was a record year for you guys. Are you on pace to beat that?

[Joe Lohmeier]
Oh, yes. This is some announcements here in the fall. That's great.

Things happen. Our growth continues. And you saw that there was some investments in Ninja One.

And we use that to not double down but quadruple down on our partner program partner investment and customer sat customer service departments and engineering all about that user experience. And that's what why I believe we have twenty quarters in a row as the number one input management tool.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. Well, Joe, we're going to have to look at getting you back as those announcements come out in the fall, because I'm paying it. I'm paying attention to you guys.

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yes, it is. It is a fun ride. And, you know, it's an interesting market out there is all your and all the MSPs know and a lot of interesting technology consolidation going on.

A lot of big tech companies downsizing. We're growing. We're adding to the platform or we're doing major investment in the platform from product releases and unlocks to investing in people, the service, those managed service providers and partners and really over rotating on paying that forward on the investment because of the growth we're seeing.

[Uncle Marv]
Yeah. You know what? You just sparked a thought in my head.

You've talked about companies downsizing. So my wife and I were we're having a discussion this past weekend because the space that we're leasing, our landlord asked us if we wanted to buy because they're moving out of the area and don't want to manage the building anymore. And we were talking about all the commercial space we have for 2023.

Vacancy for commercial space was 21 percent, which is a lot. Yeah. So as the workforce moves to this more remote model here, are you seeing that as a catalyst to help with RMM or is it making it a little bit more difficult for us to manage a remote workforce?

[Joe Lohmeier]
Yeah, that's a great question. I think the complexity is increasing. And you mentioned 21 percent there in Florida where you are.

There's some major markets, as you know, that are 40 percent vacancies in some of the commercial space. And they are seeing, as you know, a resurgence back into as the housing market is increasing and where interest rates are, that commercial could be a smart strategy. So you are seeing some return to work.

But it has definitely more, to your point, added to complexity in managing that remote workforce. That's why you saw us pivot to a lot of the big vulnerability integrations in cyber and then also that mobile data management. The ability to manage your work, that mobile workforce is more important than ever.

And, you know, us being agnostic into what platform you're using there from is really seeing us propel, helping them lower risk and increase that productivity as there's more to manage. And being able to do it remotely is huge. Some of that some of our customer stories, if you get a chance, your listeners out there go to our site, look at our PR announcements and those stories, that the tool reduction you can get from leveraging the Ninja one platform, the productivity increases and then the all-knowing IT department or managed service provider knowing what's going on with those employees, making sure they're patched, making sure the right software are deployed. We're the right company at the right time of what's going on in that in that world of commercial real estate, hybrid work and all those things. Ninjas poised very well for the near and long term; I believe.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. Sorry, I was going to let you go, but something else just popped up. We talked about the MDM.

So I was doing some MDM management with a health care client a while back. And, you know, of course, Apple made it so much fun. With their DEP deployment and changing some of the stuff there.

Now, you guys have the MDM as well, supporting mobile devices, mobile application management, kiosk stuff and everything. And I wasn't going to ask you about, you know, pricing or models or stuff like that, but is that a part of a per device model or is it poor technician model? How does that work?

[Joe Lohmeier]
So on your remote, we do a lot of you could do per technician and you could do device as well on the MDM. It's device today but structuring those deals for the customer with our MSPs. There's we are super creative on how to make sure the technology is consumed the way the customer wants it to.

And that that helps our service providers, our managed service providers look good to their customers, that flexibility. And you won't find a more nimble RMM or, you know, unified employee management company than Ninja from a speed, agility and I would say flexibility on how to do business with us is world class.

[Uncle Marv]
That's a nice play on words there. Ninja one for the nimble MSP. All right.

Well, Joe, I think I will let you go now. I didn't have anything pop up just then but thank you very much for taking the time to share with me. We've been we've been working on this for a while.

And yeah, glad we were able to finally make it happen.

[Joe Lohmeier]
Well, Marvin, a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you so much. I would love to come back.

You know, in when you see the announcements of September, October, we'll have a lot more to talk about exciting things down the road for Ninja one. And we're always happy to join your podcast for sure.

[Uncle Marv]
I appreciate that. And yeah, when I see the announcement, I will reach out unless you guys want to reach out first and do a scoop here. I'll take that as well.

[Joe Lohmeier]
I bet Holly will be all over that.

[Uncle Marv]
Again, Joe, thanks a lot there, folks. Thank you for listening. And if you've made it this far, thank you.

Thank you very much for listening to the entire episode. And be sure to head over to Ninja one dot com and check them out. Let me know your thoughts.

Email me if you think that, you know, maybe there was something I missed and you want to ask a question or something for us to follow up on later. But I want to say thank you to Joe Lohmeyer for coming on the show, giving us a quick rundown. And that's going to do it.

We'll see you out there. Check out everything over at IT business podcast dot com. And we'll see you next time.

And until then, holla.