706 Inspired by Ted Lasso - Marnie Stockman

[Uncle Marv]
Hello friends, Uncle Marv here with another episode of the IT Business Podcast powered by NetAlly. And this is the show where we talk to MSPs, thought leaders, vendors, and we try to help you run your business, grow your business, scale your business better, smarter, and faster. Today's show is brought to you by Super Ops, the all-in-one ready-made PSA to kind of get your future started and rocking and rolling.

And thank you to the friends over at Super Ops. And you won't be able to see the audio because we're just recording that, but I am holding up my Super Ops sponsored mug for the IT Business Podcast. Thank you guys very much.

Today, I am going to be having a conversation and I'll be honest, I'm not quite sure where we're going to go, but once you hear who I'm speaking with, you'll understand the name you should recognize because she is a trailblazer, a pioneer, a staple in our industry, and has rose to stardom over the last few years. Marnie Stockman is in the house. Marnie, how are you?

[Marnie Stockman]
Good. Thank you so much. We should set the bar lower but thank you.

[Uncle Marv]
Oh, no. I set it right where it needs to be.

[Marnie Stockman]
I'm excited to be here.

[Uncle Marv]
Well, thanks for coming on. So of course, we've got a lot we can talk about, but I guess we should just refresh for the listeners and for those that, you know, I don't know how, but if they don't know who you are, you kind of rose to stardom in the MSP space with Lifecycle Insights.

[Marnie Stockman]
Yes.

[Uncle Marv]
And brought us a product that helped us with our QBRs and, you know, our customer management, all of that stuff. But when you go out and talk on the circuit, you really let us know that your start began as a teacher.

[Marnie Stockman]
Correct.

[Uncle Marv]
A math nerd.

[Marnie Stockman]
Yes.

[Uncle Marv]
And of course, people are always like, okay, how do you go from being a teacher to running one of the most well-respected companies in the channel? And I'll let you go from there.

[Marnie Stockman]
Yeah. So it's funny because I do start off with, you know, I was a high school math teacher and I see the looks in people's eyes. First, there's the fear that maybe I'll assign detention, right?

And then there's the look of like, then why am I listening to you? And I will say, but here's why you want to listen to me. It's because that means I sold pre-calc to 16 year olds.

So I know something about selling and something about customer success. That usually gives a laugh. And then when they think about it, they're like, oh yeah, that is a tough gig.

If she can sell pre-calculus, maybe she can be helpful, right? So from math teacher, I became the math supervisor and accountability coordinator, which means I was in charge of all data for school district, which is assessments, student security of data information, all of those types of things, right? Which start to then dawn on MSPs of like, okay, I can kind of see where we're going from here.

In the course of doing that, I worked with an ed tech company that was all about assessments and data and analytics. And I was one of those noisy customers that always let them know, like, it needs to do this. This is what teachers need.

You know, this is how school systems need to use this. This is the information we need to have in order to do our jobs better. And one day the owner of the company at a conference, walked me to my car and said, I think you should come run customer success here.

And that is not easy for an educator. It kind of breaks your brain, right? When you grow up, I wanted to be a teacher since as early as I could remember.

And so the thought of going first from going to the classroom to administration is kind of going to the dark side. But when then you leave for the vendor side, that's the dark side again, right?

[Uncle Marv]
So let me just let me ask real quick here, because I want to know, you know, the type of jump for, you know, doing, you know, the math, teaching, ed tech to customer success. Now, was it still within the education system that you do in this customer success?

[Marnie Stockman]
Yeah. So it's the same software that the school systems were using. And then I just saw it as extrapolating to more school systems, being able to help more children by helping other school systems.

In the course of that, we got acquired three times. And as everybody in the MSP space and the vendor space knows, acquisitions don't always go well. Now, thankfully, Lifecycle Insights, that is another story that has been a great acquisition.

But in the ed tech space, we saw good, bad and ugly. And my now business partner, Nick and I were talking and he said, you know, we should start a company to see if we can start a company. But because we were working for the largest ed tech space in the world, ed tech company in the world, we really had a non-compete that meant we had to look for a problem someplace else.

So we decided to start a company and we knew our core values, right? We knew how we wanted to run a company. We knew we wanted to get stuff done.

We wanted to be transparent. We were going to be all about raving fans. But we were out looking for that problem.

And I played volleyball with Alex Farling for 20 years. I knew he was an IT business owner, didn't really think about what that meant. He knew I was in education, so just assumed I was still teaching.

And one night I said, hey, we're looking for a problem to solve. We do data analytics and, you know, that type of information. Is there anything in your space that we could help with?

And he said, yeah, I spent six hours a day cobbling together my business, my QBR. And I then learned that one, MSP didn't mean Maryland State Police, it meant managed service provider. And two, that quarterly business reviews were a huge problem and that cobbling together was like industry standard on how that work was being done.

So that is how. And then we played rock, paper, scissors, shoot. And I landed as CEO of that company.

But that is what, that is how we started Lifecycle Insights.

[Uncle Marv]
Okay. Now, I think most people will know the journey of Lifecycle Insights, now a part of ScalePad. And we'll leave that for another time.

You've talked about that. But one of the questions that I wanted to ask you, and I wasn't quite sure where to put it, I'm going to put it here. And this will let the listeners know that I did not prep you for this.

So you went from education, came over to the channel, MSP space, Lifecycle Insights sold to ScalePad. You had the opportunity to get out. So my question is, why are you still here?

[Marnie Stockman]
So first, I think it's a great space. I really had to learn all of these three-letter acronyms that I did not know four years ago, right? So part one is, I did a lot of learning, I want to put that to good use.

But part two is the community has been so welcoming and gracious that it feels like friends. And people are still asking me to talk about customer success, because I think it is a place where MSPs struggle. So many folks are going into business because they're good with technology, and it doesn't take a half a second on the internet and social media to recognize that selling is often a problem for MSPs.

But beyond selling, customer success is really a whole different world. It is something that when you realize the processes and product now that are behind that, you realize how much it can really influence a business. And I think that's really helpful.

I think MSPs are helping run all the small businesses in the world. And the small businesses aren't recognizing it. And a good customer success program can help bridge that gap.

[Uncle Marv]
So customer success is one of those topics that we've brought up, we've tried to address, and there are companies that are doing it well, but it seems to be that it's only well if you have the right personality, the right person who can engage with customers and stuff. So I've been trying to understand a way to systematize customer success. So I know that you've been out on the road talking about this and stuff, but have you seen some very good examples of MSPs that have been able to bottle up a process for customer success?

[Marnie Stockman]
Yeah. So when I talk in the MSP space about quarterly business reviews, I will say customer success with quarterly business reviews as a foundation. So I think the basis in this space for customer success is to start with a good business review process.

Why? MSPs have been told for 20 years that they need to do quarterly business reviews, but those business reviews have changed. If you think about what happened when, Alex would talk about the fact that when his MSP, when you had the crash in 2008, that is when remote management software became a thing and you start managing from afar.

And when you started managing from afar, you lost the relationships because you could just do everything from a distance. So you weren't checking in, chatting with the front desk person, bringing in bagels and chit-chatting, which is when you often learned all of the other problems and built those relationships. So that is when the industry started telling folks that they needed to do quarterly business reviews.

But let's think about the technology that was back in 2008. Now I wasn't an MSP, I don't pretend to play one on TV, so I can't remember exactly what happened then.

[Uncle Marv]
Oh, I remember.

[Marnie Stockman]
I can tell you that this morning, my computer told me it patched itself, right? So in 2008, I suspect there was a lot of manual work, and this is where you can help me out. There was probably manual work, so you telling me that you patched my computer would feel like, thanks, Uncle Marv, I needed that, right?

Whereas this morning, I'm like, I did it myself. You're not coming to my office to talk to me for 20 minutes about how you patched it.

[Uncle Marv]
Right. Big difference. Yeah, because back then, actually around 2008, we were starting to do remote, but it still wasn't automatic patching.

We still had to schedule time. We'd tell people, leave your computers on, I'm running patches tonight. In some offices, you actually had to go on-site to manage a network patch, even if you could push it out remotely, not every office could have remote access.

So there was a lot of that, and yes, it was definitely a lot of manual stuff that our customers could actually see us working. They saw us come in, they saw all of that stuff, and now they don't see it. So then, of course, they're like, why are we paying you if it does it itself?

[Marnie Stockman]
Exactly. It's one of those, everything's working, why am I paying you, or nothing's working, why am I paying you? Right.

There's no happy medium. So folks that have a good customer success process now have a process for quarterly business reviews that are the right business reviews. So a lot of folks, you know, I did thousands of demos, quite literally, in the four years that we life cycled.

[Uncle Marv]
And you were doing a thing every Wednesday, I believe.

[Marnie Stockman]
Correct. Yes. Yeah.

We would do group onboardings and group demos. And we would, I would ask, what is your quarterly business review process? Is it, you know, every client gets one quarterly, every client gets one when they need one, and it might not be quarterly, everybody gets one when they can, or really ad hoc?

And ad hoc, like catch-as-catch-can, was the most popular answer by far, like 95% maybe was ad hoc. And so when we really started to dig into that problem, the first thing we found was MSPs weren't, they were too technical. So it was a lot of patch stats, how many, how many spams have I anti-spammed, how many viruses have I anti-virus, like, please, you're killing me.

This is not, this is not big business to a small business owner, right? And then they weren't strategic. So they're too technical and it wasn't business focused.

So what we aimed to do was really help folks automate the stuff that can be automated and highlight the things that could help you have a strategic business conversation to help make it truly customer focused, which is the key to customer success. So that's why QBRs are the foundation for customer success, because it is the first process that an MSP puts in front of one of their clients that acknowledges that you care about their business, not just the flux capacitors that you're plugging into things.

[Uncle Marv]
So I'm going to pull back the curtain here. I usually don't tell people how I've done my processes. My QBRs were not QBRs.

So I did have a couple of clients that actually integrated me into their meetings so that whenever they would have a meeting that was strategic, they would bring me in and I'd have a little slice of the pie. But it was like they were inviting me into their inner circle to be like, we know how important our IT is, so we want to hear what's happened good, what's happened bad, what do we need to plan for? So that worked, but it wasn't on a schedule.

It was based on the customer. And one of the problems is when I started to press for them, most of the clients would be like, okay, I know you're trying to sell me something. Just tell me what it is.

And I'm like, no, I'm not trying to sell you something. So I know a lot of MSPs have gone through that where they're trying to push for the QBR. And some of them have transitioned to the ad hoc or TBR, just whenever they can get that technology review.

But moving from this used car salesman mentality that our customers think we are, where every time we meet with them, they think that we're trying to sell. That's got to be a part of the process as well. So I don't know if that was ever, because I didn't attend the Wednesday meetings.

I made my office admin person do it, i.e. Kim, my wife. How do we address that in this customer success formula?

[Marnie Stockman]
So part of it is that you should lead with it. And your QBR process should actually be part of your sales process. So the sales process, hopefully, is all focused on the business needs of the client and what you can do to fix that.

And if that conversation can start with, okay, Marv, what are your goals for 2024? Tell me about what you're looking to do. And if you tell me you're looking to rebrand or you're looking to grow by acquisition or you're aiming to automate some of the things to make your office more productive, like I said, I was an MSP and even I can figure out what work aligns with those types of business statements.

So when you can connect the dots of, well, we have other clients that we've been able to help with productivity by implementing X, Y, or Z, and we have these meetings quarterly so that we can figure out how we are helping you accomplish your goals. Okay, you didn't say anywhere, we're going to check back in and make sure everything's plugged in. I'm going to come in and turn things off and turn them back on again and make them better.

Like there was none of that. We just focused on; you want to be more productive. Oh, you want to expand?

You would like these wires not on the ground and want to go to wireless, right? You're opening new locations. Those are all business decisions.

So if you can set that in the sales process, then the reason of why you're doing business reviews to talk about their business objectives and whether or not technology is helping you meet those outcomes. I feel like that's a smooth transition. Some folks are stuck because they got where they are now and don't have them and we have to do some backing up.

That's a different question.

[Uncle Marv]
Okay, so how, I mean, you're, I'm trying to ask this in a gentle, politically correct way. You're, you're out of Lifecycle Insights, right?

[Marnie Stockman]
Yeah, yeah.

[Uncle Marv]
But I know that a lot of times when I've seen you, I've seen you twice now on the road and then I'll see you again in September. You still get a lot of questions based on your time at Lifecycle Insights. Are you okay with that?

Are you trying to pivot with that now? I mean, where are we?

[Marnie Stockman]
Oh, I'm more than happy. I'm a strong supporter and shareholder of ScalePad, frankly. So I will absolutely talk Lifecycle Insights because frankly, it is what's best for businesses, both small businesses and MSPs.

That's the unique thing about customer success is if like what is good for your clients is good for you. So this is so mutually beneficial. Everybody should be talking about it.

And I mean, we are pivoting. Nick and I wrote the book, Lead It Like Lasso to talk about leadership. But part of leadership is learning how to lead yourself and your business.

So I don't see it as a huge pivot. You know, customer success is often about leading your clients. I think so.

Good leadership lessons are all about that really align with good business and good customer success. So I am happy to chat QBR's customer success or leadership and any permutation of how that, you know, falls into place.

[Uncle Marv]
OK, well, I'm glad you brought that up because that was kind of where I was going to try to go, because a lot of what you're doing now is focused on leadership. So, of course, the Lead It Like Lasso book has been out. You actually have another podcast called The Lens of Leadership.

[Marnie Stockman]
Yes.

[Uncle Marv]
Which you call a Lead It Like Lasso watch party.

[Marnie Stockman]
Rewatch podcast.

[Uncle Marv]
Rewatch. OK. So, I mean, I've listened to a few episodes, but for listeners who do not know, explain that podcast.

[Marnie Stockman]
Yes. So we take each individual episode of Ted Lasso and we will watch one episode and we will pick a leadership lesson that is really highlighting that episode. For folks that don't know Ted Lasso, he was a fish out of water who coached American football and went to England to coach European football, which is soccer.

And he freely admitted that there were two full Internets of things he didn't know about soccer. But we quickly find out that he knows a ton about coaching and great coaching is great leadership. It's a prime example.

There's so many books from great coaches in the world because those are really well aligned. So we watch that episode with a specific lens of let's take a leadership principle and deep dive into what the writers of Ted Lasso did and parallel it with things that happen in the real world. And I have to tell you, those writers were brilliant.

Sometimes we're watching it now for the fifth or tenth time, a specific episode. And when we pick a theme, we're like, oh, my gosh, like, look at how they did that six different ways in this episode. So we chat about we chat about that.

We just finished all of season one and then we're taking August off. And after August, then we will start with season two in a slightly different format. But the same idea.

[Uncle Marv]
Yeah. By just listen to the last episode, July 5th, and that was the end of season one. And some of the things actually that came out of that, obviously, there, you know, concepts in the book, but you were doing the recap of, you know, leadership is a way of life and explaining that, you know, it's not just a title.

It's not, you know, something that just shows up. It emphasizes that, you know, the principles that can be applied. And you've mentioned that it's, you know, business, sports, personal relationships and stuff.

One of the things that we chatted about before, you mentioned core values and I've got scribbles as to what we were talking about with that. But I guess one of the things was specifically, do you know what your core values are? And why it's important, I guess that's a question that, you know, can be applied to anything.

But in terms of MSPs, do you run across or did you run across when you were talking MSPs on the regular, a lot of them that did not have any core values?

[Marnie Stockman]
So it's interesting. I see a few different things first. And my doctorate is in leadership.

So I've been thinking about this for a long time. A lot of people that are accidental entrepreneurs, which many MSPs are, right, they solve a problem, they get paid to solve that problem. Then suddenly they have a business model and they're solving that problem a lot.

And whoops, I better hire people to do this some more. So now I'm a business owner. So the first thing they often run across and the first thing that many leadership programs come run across is let's create a vision for where we want to go.

But we would argue that core values and building the culture is actually more important than that vision, because without the right core value and culture, you're not going to get anywhere. So when it comes to core values, oftentimes it is looking back to figure out if you do know your core values. So many MSPs will say that they want to help people.

That is how they got into the business, right? They're very technical and they wanted to problem solve or help folks. And then the interesting piece is many times the owner's core value becomes the accidental company core value.

And then when they go to do the exercise as a company, there's kind of a mismatch of what it feels like to work in the company. And your personal core values play out in the culture of the company. So I think this is what you and I last time talked about.

OK, it is important to know your core values, but it is also important to know the broader company's core values, because if there's a clash between those core values and you can't see alignment, that is when, you know, employees are going to want to leave. You didn't have a you don't have to have the same core value as your salesperson, but your salesperson needs to understand how their core values align with the company core values and culture.

[Uncle Marv]
Yeah, we talked about that and I actually had a couple of thoughts after we talked, because, you know, one is, do you know your core values and do your employees know your core values? And the fact that everybody can have a different set of core values, what I have found and this is some people, somebody will call me or email me afterwards because they'll know who I'm talking about. But there are people that I mean, their personal core value has nothing to do with their business where, you know, they don't want to talk to people.

They just got into computers because they like it and they figured out they can make money. They're building this business and they're trying to project this image of, you know, we want to be authentic and we want to help people. And no, you don't even want to talk to people.

How do you want to help them? So one of the questions obviously is, how do you make all of that stuff align? I mean, I mean, I'm asking you, but I don't know if you can even answer.

But I'm sure you've thought about that.

[Marnie Stockman]
Yeah. So it is important that the core value is just not a mandate if you're already in an existing company. Right.

At Lifecycle Insights, we had four co-founders and the four of us met before we even had a product and talked about what our core values were going to be. And the reason that is important is because culture is how your core values play out. So if you are just starting a company or have a small team now, like my husband's a landscaper, so he always says the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago.

But the next best time is today. So the same thing is true about core values. The best time to pick your core values or to determine them is 20 years ago.

But the next best time is right now. So, you know, to look at your core values and think about how we want to be as a company and not just like the authentic piece. So if you say authentic is going to be your core value, I want you to think long and hard about how that plays out and what the behaviors will look like if someone calls in with a problem.

Right. What is what does authentic look like? So transparency was one of our core values.

And AWS went down, right, AWS East. And that is what the server that we were on. And so we went down and within like within 10 minutes, our engineers had determined that it wasn't us.

It was AWS. So we put out on all social media, Twitter, et cetera, and sent out an email saying we're down. It's AWS East.

We'll give an update in an hour, even if we don't know anything. And we'll update you every hour after that until we hear something. So it wasn't a question of do we act like we don't have a problem?

We're trying to figure out, do we wait? Do we like? No, our core value is transparency.

So immediately, like our biggest communication piece is the 30 seconds to 10 minutes it takes for us to figure out how to word the note saying, yeah, we're down. So if authenticity is your core value, how does that play out in terms of hiring people, in terms of communicating career paths for folks, in terms of what happens when something breaks, what happens when you broke something? If you're being authentic, what does that look like?

So for folks that really just want to solve the tech problem, that might not be, you know, I think everybody needs to be authentic, but they need to think about what is authentic for them. And it's certainly not, I want to, you know, go have strategic coffees weekly with folks because that's not authentic to them.

[Uncle Marv]
Having coffee is not a value either.

[Marnie Stockman]
It is not. It isn't. But in terms of building relationships, right, if that person said building relationships or strong community is our core value, that would, in fact, not be true.

Right. Technical expertise, that might be a core value. Right.

And a client could appreciate that. So you need alignment from yourself to your company, and then you need to project that on your website so that you're also attracting the right clients.

[Uncle Marv]
Right. So one of the things that happened at the beginning of 2023, I thought that I would rebrand my business and come up with, you know, a set of core values, blah, blah, blah, because, you know, technically it's just me, even though I have, you know, one other employee, I've got subcontractors, it's really me. And I thought, let me set myself up for growth scale down the road.

And I had trouble coming up with core values because I didn't like the wording. I didn't like the phrasing. I wasn't going to call myself authentic because I think that's too self-serving to a degree.

I'm like, well, people call other people authentic. You don't call yourself authentic.

[Marnie Stockman]
Yeah.

[Uncle Marv]
So when I was going through that exercise of trying to figure out core values, one of the problems that I had was understanding, okay, what is a core value? I Googled, I searched, I did everybody's, you know, but then I found like you can't take somebody else's core value either. So when you're talking to people, explaining this core value system to them, how do you describe, first of all, what is a core value and how do you find out what yours are?

[Marnie Stockman]
So we've got a couple of strategies that are sort of the straightforward path, but then we have the opposite path as well, because sometimes you need that. So straightforward is sort of the guiding principle. What is it on the daily that makes you, you know, that is core.

It's a guiding principle of who you are. Now, that's easily said, but then if you go look at a list of core values, they all sound good. I want to be inspiring.

I want to educate. I want to learn. I want to be a lifetime learner.

You know, there's so many things, but typically you look at a whole list and you narrow it down to three to five of these really feel like me. And it could be things like competition, collaboration, right? You start looking at opposites of which of those are more like you.

So but some folks still, even after looking at that list, are picking aspirational things or things they think they should say. Like, oh, I should say family. Well, that might not be driving your company, right?

Like you can have that as you're doing all things for your family but creating more family time. I'm an empty nester. Right.

So I like dinner on the table is not a thing that happens because the kids are out about in the world. Right. So sometimes they get stuck on that aspirational piece.

So here are two tricks for determining your career value. First, think about the last time you were angry. And what was it?

I know you didn't see that coming. That made you angry. So I will tell you that I said the statement earlier, lack of planning on your part should not constitute an emergency on my part.

Right. I get mad when someone else interrupts my productivity flow. Because I like to get stuff done.

So I know that productivity and getting things done is one of my core values, because I get angry when someone else gets in the way of that. So one thing is to think about what makes you mad and what is it that's really angering you? Because like incompetence, does that make you insane?

Is that because really knowing your craft is important to you? The other thing you can do is ask your closest friend, why are we friends? And you ask them five times or seven times until they finally say, I don't know, Marv, we're friends because and whatever comes out of their mouth is dead.

So I tried this. And the answer was, because you make me better. And it's interesting, because I was on a bike ride with my daughter.

[Uncle Marv]
OK, before you tell the story, I'm going to ask, are you really pressing that person to get to that outburst?

[Marnie Stockman]
Yeah. Yeah. So it's not necessarily an outburst, but it is getting to the point where it is deep.

OK, it is, you know, like it is at the core, not a superficial statement, right? Like, hey, why do we hang out? You're fun.

That's is like. Is that the only that may be the reason? But yeah.

But why do we have fun together? Oh, well, that's a different statement. Right.

We have fun together because maybe it's because you're both adventurous. Right. Or like because you make me be adventurous when I'm not, you know, so you're somebody who pushes me.

Right. What you're starting to get deeper than just like, well, we're both in the same yoga class. That's not a core value.

But when you realize that being in the same yoga class has helped you connect because you're both into fitness and wellness and you're aiming to be a better version of yourself, now we're getting into some real.

[Uncle Marv]
OK, I just wanted to see how far down you press, because I've used something similar when I've asked a customer, you know, why do you continue to keep using us?

[Marnie Stockman]
Yeah.

[Uncle Marv]
And a lot of times we just stop at the first answer. But I would love to press them more and say, well, really, why?

[Marnie Stockman]
Take the first answer and then ask a why about that. So don't you know, don't do the two year old version of a why where you feel like why, why, why, why? Right.

But if their first answer is, well, we appreciate your work. So what is it about the work? Because what you're really looking to see is, is it because I've got a live human that answers the phone all the time?

Is it because it's me, Marv, that shows up? Is it because we're fast? Is it because you've never had an issue and we're proactive?

Right. Like you're really trying to get to that next level. So I think that's exactly what you should do to find out.

That's how you can find out your company core values, because it's playing out somehow.

[Uncle Marv]
Yeah. All right. I had stopped you.

You were starting to talk about a 15 year old and a bicycle.

[Marnie Stockman]
Well, it was just this is how I accidentally found. I mean, it was interesting. I told her I was interviewing and I said, one of the questions they're going to ask is, what is my superhero power?

And that's kind of a weird thing to answer. And she said, well, you know what your superhero power is. Now, keep in mind, she's 15.

If you haven't hung out with 15 year olds recently, you may not get what you want to hear. So I was a little nervous about this. And she said, your superhero power is you always aim to help people become the best version of themselves.

And I thought, OK, I think my superhero power is raising a 15 year old who's going to say that. But when I first started teaching and people asked my philosophy of education, I would say I believe it's every teacher's responsibility to help students become the best versions of themselves. And Ted Lasso says it's not about the wins and losses.

It's about helping the folks on the field become the best version of themselves. So sometimes you just happen across it by happenstance.

[Uncle Marv]
All right. So, wow, that's a nice little masterclass on core values. Are you putting together a masterclass at some point on this stuff?

[Marnie Stockman]
We are. Actually, I just uploaded the first module. So we have built so we've got the book and we and a lot of folks have asked us for an audible version.

And the book has a lot of worksheets and things in it. So we're trying to figure out how that would work. And we realized that a masterclass would make a lot of sense.

So we're not just reading the book. We're actually creating new activities that folks can go through. So one of the things that we end up talking about a lot is leadership.

And you mentioned earlier is not just for the CEO of the company. Quite literally, everyone is a leader, right? In a boardroom, a classroom, a locker room, a living room.

And you need to learn your own personal leadership to guide yourself to where you want to be. So this masterclass is on personal leadership. And there is absolutely a section on core values where which is why it quickly came to mind as I was recording yesterday.

Like, yeah, ask where he got angry. Yeah, I just went over that activity yesterday. So we are going to have that out very soon.

We're aiming for the end of the month. We're pretty excited about that.

[Uncle Marv]
All right, so now shifting gears here, I need to ask this question legally, did you run into any hurdles with using lasso as your mantra there?