Dawn Sizer: Zero Trust & Iguanas (EP773)

[Speaker 2] (0:26 - 0:49)
Hello friends, here we are with another episode of the IT Business Podcast. Here in Orlando, Florida at Zero Trust World 2025 at the lovely Caribe Coral. And I am joined by my good friend, and that's with a capital G, Dawn Sizer in the house.

Dawn, how are you?

[Speaker 1] (0:49 - 0:56)
Very well. Thank you so much for having me. Well, and also, it's always so good to see you.

I love running into you out on the road.

[Speaker 2] (0:56 - 1:03)
But here's the thing. That's the only time we run into each other, out in the road at a conference in Orlando.

[Speaker 1] (1:05 - 1:07)
It's because nothing exists out of Orlando.

[Speaker 2] (1:08 - 1:10)
You made it. You took a left and went to Tampa.

[Speaker 1] (1:11 - 1:11)
Once.

[Speaker 2] (1:12 - 1:12)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (1:12 - 1:14)
Just one time. I went to Tampa.

[Speaker 2] (1:14 - 1:16)
And I'll be in Philly later this year.

[Speaker 1] (1:16 - 1:18)
It's true. Are you going to come visit me?

[Speaker 2] (1:18 - 1:21)
I Don’t know. What is it? Three hours?

Four hours?

[Speaker 1] (1:21 - 1:22)
I'll come down. I'll drive.

[Speaker 2] (1:22 - 1:23)
Halfway?

[Speaker 1] (1:23 - 1:29)
Yeah. There's nothing halfway, is there? No, there's literally nothing.

I'll be in Lancaster if you want to go look at the Amish.

[Speaker 2] (1:30 - 1:39)
I've seen Amish. It's like me saying to you, let's go look at Iguanas.

[Speaker 1] (1:39 - 1:40)
I mean, I would.

[Speaker 2] (1:41 - 1:42)
Well, because there's a business there.

[Speaker 1] (1:42 - 1:43)
There's a business there.

[Speaker 2] (1:46 - 1:51)
So for those of you that never keep up with the show, you should, because you miss stuff like this.

[Speaker 1] (1:51 - 2:13)
Right. Well, it's the inside joke kind of thing, right? So the iguana business was a funny thing.

I found out, apparently, as soon as it gets cold in Florida, the iguanas drop out of the trees. And then there's this weird scenario where they have an iguana. I want to say hunters, but it's not the right word.

It's like pest control, but with iguanas.

[Speaker 2] (2:14 - 2:15)
It's a removal service.

[Speaker 1] (2:15 - 2:33)
It's a removal service. So I'm thinking we just wait till they fall out of the trees. They're kind of stunned.

We air tag the little guys, train them, because you have to train them at that point. And then for the removal service, we just let them go out into the wild. Somebody calls us up and we know where they are.

[Speaker 2] (2:33 - 2:39)
Yeah, you want to do a relocation service. It's not really a removal service.

[Speaker 1] (2:39 - 2:44)
No, it is iguana removal as a service, because they're going to come right back.

[Speaker 2] (2:45 - 3:04)
As a service. Everything as a service. Oh, my goodness gracious.

All right. So as we mentioned, we're here at Zero Trust Threat Locker. I'm finding that a lot of people are quite surprised that I really do use Threat Locker.

And you realize that I have you to blame for that.

[Speaker 1] (3:04 - 3:33)
Yeah, it is. It's my fault. There's no doubt about it.

It's my fault. It's like, what are you doing? You're not using Threat Locker.

I think we actually literally have a problem. But I mean, the other part of that was its. Yes, there is.

It's a time intensive product to learn to use. It's a time intensive product to actually use. But if you're using the Cyber Hero part of it, the lift is almost gone.

There's still some set up. There's still some policies. There's still some things on top of that.

But the elevation piece.

[Speaker 2] (3:33 - 3:50)
So I did not choose to use Cyber Hero because I wanted to do it myself. I wanted to see beneath the hood and do all of that. But I hear a lot of others that are like, I can't do it.

I need the Cyber Hero.

[Speaker 1] (3:50 - 4:22)
Yeah, what I've heard and I've heard this loud and clear from a couple of folks is that they Don’t have they Don’t have enough staff as it is. Right. So to take on a product like that, they almost have to have the Cyber Heroes.

And my thought behind that is if you really Don’t have the staff to start with. One, that's a problem. But two, why are you bringing on more security that you Don’t know how to use?

You Don’t know how it functions. So what happens when you have a problem or something is misconfigured? You can't lean on the vendor for absolutely everything, right?

[Speaker 2] (4:22 - 4:33)
But here's what I have found. And this is just for me. So your mileage may vary.

But I mean, it literally has cut our calls in half.

[Speaker 1] (4:33 - 4:36)
Yeah, depending on your clients, right?

[Speaker 2] (4:36 - 4:37)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (4:38 - 5:04)
If you have clients that have a lot of installations going on or plugins or updates or things along those lines, you're going to have more calls, right? So pop shops, right? They have a lot of stop and drop scenarios, and they get video footage all the time.

Every single piece of video footage is different. It all comes from some other thing from Costco, from whatever place that it is.

[Speaker 2] (5:04 - 5:14)
I do have a client. They're a law firm, and they're an insurance defense. So they get a lot of video footage, a lot of x-rays.

And they have a thousand DICOM viewers. I never...

[Speaker 1] (5:14 - 5:32)
Yeah. Yeah. So we have that scenario going on.

What we have found is, again, depending on the scenario, your mileage may vary as always. We have kept one machine off the network, completely off the network for that kind of thing. So they can bring in the footage, they can do whatever.

And if it's time sensitive, that way they have the ability to do it.

[Speaker 2] (5:33 - 5:36)
That's interesting. I Don’t know if my law firm would ever want to do that.

[Speaker 1] (5:37 - 5:38)
And that's totally fair.

[Speaker 2] (5:38 - 5:40)
Because people Don’t want to get it from their desk.

[Speaker 1] (5:40 - 6:22)
No, they Don’t. And what's really funny is we just talked to one of these folks not too awful long ago. And they are bringing in, getting a huge pile of USB keys.

And we're onboarding those into ThreatLocker as well. So it's a really good give and take scenario. I think once the client truly understands how it functions and why it functions, the why behind it is so important for them to understand.

Because most of them are just like, well, this is blocking me from doing my job. Right. But it's the, okay, but here's where its function actually is.

And once they understand that. And if you have somebody that's been bitten by something, and we've had that scenario, like this is what it's designed to stop. And here's where we stop it.

[Speaker 2] (6:23 - 6:37)
So I should try to get to some of these sessions. Because even though I've understood and known the term rubber ducky, I've known the term pineapple, never actually seen any in operation.

[Speaker 1] (6:38 - 6:38)
Really?

[Speaker 2] (6:38 - 6:41)
Yeah. Why am I going to go out and look for something?

[Speaker 1] (6:41 - 6:42)
I mean, that's fair. That's fair.

[Speaker 2] (6:44 - 6:58)
But I was talking to somebody who said, you know what you want? You should get really get one and take it to a client and show them what it does with ThreatLocker on and show them what it does with ThreatLocker off.

[Speaker 1] (6:58 - 7:42)
Yeah. I Don’t think people, especially some of the folks in the legal field, understand what corporate espionage really is. Right.

It's not, it's not huge companies. It's, oh, you have a fairly decent case. And I want to know what your structure looks like.

There's all kinds of ways I can go about that. One is to get somebody hired, right? They come in, they put a USB key in.

They're there two days. They quit. And away they go.

Right. Or one of the other things is, you know, depending on your people and how you're using things like chat GPT or whatever, the data's there. All I have to do is ask for it.

So there's all kinds of ways around that. I'm super excited for some of the announcements tomorrow that are coming.

[Speaker 2] (7:44 - 7:51)
So, I mean, I'm going to be talking all about ThreatLocker and cyber security stuff. So what else is going on in your world?

[Speaker 1] (7:52 - 7:53)
What isn't going on in my world?

[Speaker 2] (7:53 - 7:56)
I Don’t know. And why is my camera off center again?

[Speaker 1] (7:57 - 8:07)
So we'll just, we'll just come in this way. Is that how it works? Oh, look at that.

That's so cool.

[Speaker 2] (8:07 - 8:28)
It's supposed to track in. So I'm here folks. I should probably tell everybody.

So I got the new Rodecaster video and it is supposed to do all of the automated stuff. Like track and zoom in and out. And it keeps blinking at me.

But I think what happens is it gets off kilter and apparently you're more important than I am.

[Speaker 1] (8:28 - 8:28)
I'm not.

[Speaker 2] (8:39 - 8:50)
Welcome to the live show. So, so anyway, we're going to be off kilter for a while. So tell me what else is going on in your world.

[Speaker 1] (8:51 - 8:56)
I think some of the biggest things right now, we're re-looking at some of our vendor stack, right?

[Speaker 2] (8:57 - 8:58)
It's that time of year.

[Speaker 1] (8:58 - 9:30)
It is. It's that time of year. But the other part was I did, I think, for Channel Pro yesterday and did the whole, like, if you're not using a framework, why aren't you using a framework?

It's so easy to explain cybersecurity to your clients, to whatever. When you're going down through a framework, it's so easy to do a gap analysis. If you're looking at the controls on a framework, it's so easy to do a lot of things if you're using that.

And I mean, there's a couple of spots where I'm not happy with some of the things that we have available to us. So there's just what it is.

[Speaker 2] (9:30 - 9:31)
Like in the channel in general?

[Speaker 1] (9:32 - 10:10)
Just in the channel in general. Yeah. So there's been a couple of little products that we've been looking at.

We're reviewing Cloud Capsule right now and a couple of other little oddities that I think will make things better. Like I said, I'm excited for tomorrow's announcements because I think that's some things that we can take a look at. But what I'm not finding with a lot of vendors is what good looks like, right?

They're not putting out, this is what good should look like. They're putting out, this is our product and it's what good should look like. But they're not putting out, this is what good should look like and this is how my product adheres to that.

[Speaker 2] (10:10 - 10:17)
No, what they're doing is putting out, here's the one problem our solution solves. Put it in your stack.

[Speaker 1] (10:17 - 10:17)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (10:18 - 10:20)
And it's like, well, I already have.

[Speaker 1] (10:20 - 10:22)
I feel like I should just keep leaning in closer to you.

[Speaker 2] (10:23 - 10:28)
There we go. Look at that. Look at there.

And yeah, this will not be edited.

[Speaker 1] (10:29 - 10:32)
No, that is David James.

[Speaker 2] (10:34 - 10:52)
So here we are. So Dave, if you're watching, this is not on purpose. Kim, if you're watching, this is not on purpose.

Yeah, here we are live.

[Speaker 1] (10:52 - 10:53)
Here we are live, exactly.

[Speaker 2] (10:53 - 10:58)
As they're taking away food and cleaning off tables and vendors are walking by.

[Speaker 1] (10:59 - 11:00)
Have you been to any of the sessions yet?

[Speaker 2] (11:01 - 11:07)
No. No, I've been here learning how to set up this gear. As you can see, doing it.

[Speaker 1] (11:07 - 11:09)
I Don’t know if you know, but you're not so good with the camera yet.

[Speaker 2] (11:10 - 11:19)
It's a new camera too. And so, see, it's blinking. It's blinking.

[Speaker 1] (11:19 - 11:22)
It's thinking of that. I just Don’t know why it's focusing.

[Speaker 2] (11:23 - 11:48)
So obviously I got to get a new camera. This stuff is an investment. And by the way, if you're a vendor, I could use a gear sponsor to help pay for some of this and get the right stuff.

So I do want to go back. So I'll tell you. So I'm working on an MSP slash vendor etiquette series.

[Speaker 1] (11:49 - 11:52)
Okay, tell me more about this. What does that mean?

[Speaker 2] (11:52 - 11:59)
So it's going to be two things. One, how, you know, we always hear MSPs complaining about vendors.

[Speaker 1] (11:59 - 12:00)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (12:00 - 12:20)
What they do wrong, how they cold call horribly. They Don’t, you know, listen to the MSP, etc., etc. I'm also going to do something on the opposite side where I want to hear what the vendors are saying about the MSPs.

[Speaker 1] (12:20 - 12:20)
Okay.

[Speaker 2] (12:21 - 13:01)
You know, that whole little thing about, well, we try to respect what you want, but you're bailing on us as soon as there's a price change or you're complaining about the decisions we make when it only affects you as opposed to the other 1500 MSPs we're trying to deal with. The vitriol that goes on in the social media. And so vendors are getting pushed back, but they have frustrations about MSPs as well.

So I want to ask both sides, let's list all these things out. And I want to do it specifically. I want the MSPs to hear what the vendors are saying.

[Speaker 1] (13:02 - 13:26)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's fair, right?

Because we talk in our own little echo chamber, right? We Don’t like these guys. We Don’t like those guys.

But the reality is that the situation creates itself, whether it's from us or them or the combination thereof. But the situation that we're living in right now has arisen because of things on both sides.

[Speaker 2] (13:27 - 13:52)
Yeah. So I want to do that. So that's the first part of it.

The second part of it is to talk about all of these gaps that exist. We have tons and tons of products. And I probably shouldn't say this, but I think a lot of the solutions that would actually work really great for us, there's a big chunk of them that aren't in our channel.

[Speaker 1] (13:52 - 13:52)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (13:55 - 14:22)
And that needs to... I Don’t know how that should be addressed, whether it's we should try to get them to come in. And I am so off camera again.

Try to get them to cater to us because... Or to find a way for our current vendors to look at what they're doing and see how it can be incorporated into what we currently have.

[Speaker 1] (14:22 - 14:34)
So what we have found, right? The needs, right? The needs that are out there for the couple of products that we need have been acquired, right?

[Speaker 2] (14:34 - 14:34)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (14:34 - 14:35)
Stripped.

[Speaker 2] (14:35 - 14:35)
Yes.

[Speaker 1] (14:36 - 14:36)
Shut down.

[Speaker 2] (14:37 - 14:37)
Of course.

[Speaker 1] (14:38 - 14:39)
And some other things.

[Speaker 2] (14:39 - 14:39)
Yep.

[Speaker 1] (14:39 - 14:44)
Right? Or it's just the shell of the product or it hasn't been developed for a long time or whatever the situation is.

[Speaker 2] (14:44 - 14:47)
Or they make the money and they Don’t care anymore. Exactly.

[Speaker 1] (14:47 - 15:14)
The ones that I think I find the most troubling, if you will, are the ones that they get acquired and then there isn't a development cycle for them anymore. And if there's no development cycle, that also tells me that they're not looking at bugs. They're not looking at security issues.

They're not looking at a couple of other things they should be looking at. So now I have a piece of software that I've had to pay money for that is probably now a security risk that has data in it that I certainly wouldn't want to share with it.

[Speaker 2] (15:14 - 15:14)
Keep talking.

[Speaker 1] (15:15 - 15:39)
But I think that's one of those things that we're all suffering with. I think there's also the point of when we do have gaps, whether it is a control gap or whether it is just a need, right? For needs analysis.

There's also the situation that we get into of there's not a lot of money in it for whatever reason.

[Speaker 2] (15:40 - 15:40)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (15:40 - 15:48)
And the vendor doesn't want to develop that product because they can't find enough money in it.

[Speaker 2] (15:49 - 16:09)
So I think that's one thing. I think two, if they get to where they are ahead of their skis, where they can't figure out a solution, and rather than be honest and say, we're working on it, they just ignore it or pivot to something else.

[Speaker 1] (16:09 - 16:13)
Can we talk about the easy button too? Because I think that's part of the issue.

[Speaker 2] (16:13 - 16:14)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (16:15 - 16:22)
There's so many products out there that have created a scenario where you Don’t actually need the product, but it's an easy button to do the thing.

[Speaker 2] (16:23 - 16:23)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (16:23 - 16:30)
Right? And there's a couple of them here that do that exact thing. In fact, there's one right down the way that...

[Speaker 2] (16:31 - 16:31)
That way.

[Speaker 1] (16:31 - 16:34)
Yes. It does this exact thing.

[Speaker 2] (16:34 - 16:35)
Look there, folks. There's the vendor.

[Speaker 1] (16:36 - 16:48)
Look over there. But it has to do with encrypting things, right? If you're running certain products, you Don’t need that.

It's a feature that isn't needed, but it's easy, if you will.

[Speaker 2] (16:51 - 16:56)
Okay, but is that fault of the vendor or the fault of us? Because a lot of us want easy.

[Speaker 1] (16:56 - 17:04)
So here's the thing. I think that it's the fault of you, the MSP, for saying, I need the easy button.

[Speaker 2] (17:04 - 17:04)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (17:04 - 17:46)
Because I haven't educated my client appropriately on the products they're already paying for. But I can make additional money if I just sell another thing. I think it's also...

There's an onus on the vendor that says, yes, I'm providing a product, but where does my product really fit? And what am I actually solving? And if they're getting to the point where there's not a really good fit anymore, there's truly not a good solve, why are they not adding to the product that they have to actually solve a problem, set a control in whatever framework they want to put in there and make sure that they're truly adding value to the MSP and the client at large.

[Speaker 2] (17:46 - 18:25)
Right. So sounds to me like we're talking about maturity levels, both for the vendor and for the MSP. So when I've had individual conversations with MSPs, that are bigger than me, but haven't been in the space as long as me, or Don’t have the same desire to do right by the customer and do right by what's best.

Because a lot of them, it's all about the dollar signs. I just need to be able to make so much money on whatever product I sell.

[Speaker 1] (18:26 - 18:28)
Well, and at that point, are they an MSP or are they a sales engine?

[Speaker 2] (18:31 - 18:34)
Well, every MSP is supposed to be built to be sold, right?

[Speaker 1] (18:36 - 18:50)
Sure. But to be fair, I think there's a very different thought process, I'm going to say, between an organization that's truly a sales engine, you are just selling.

[Speaker 2] (18:51 - 18:51)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (18:51 - 19:19)
And then one that is service-based. Yes, you need both in each one, but if you're truly sales focused and all you're worried about is like, all the products that you can sell and all the widgets that you can sell, and what other things can I add to my line card? That's a sales engine.

It's not truly a service company, and what are you delivering besides a product? I think that's just an open-ended question.

[Speaker 2] (19:19 - 19:21)
I was going to say, you have a follow-up to that?

[Speaker 1] (19:21 - 19:23)
No, I've got nothing, that's it.

[Speaker 2] (19:23 - 19:31)
Okay. We need to have this conversation more because you and I can go deep in this area.

[Speaker 1] (19:31 - 19:32)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (19:32 - 19:34)
We just Don’t need to do it on air with people going, what?

[Speaker 1] (19:35 - 19:39)
That's fair. That is fair, but I think there's a lot of...

[Speaker 2] (19:39 - 20:02)
But it's conversations that needs to be had in this space, and I think there's something to be said because conversations that I've had recently of people questioning me about my business, and I'm like, why? Why are you questioning me about my business model just because I haven't grown to 10 people, 10 million?

[Speaker 1] (20:03 - 20:05)
Because they're worried about...

[Speaker 2] (20:05 - 20:21)
You know, as if you're not really an MSP, you're not really doing it right. I'm like, okay, do you want to go talk to my customers? Because I think that's the only way I can really get to them is that I have law firms, I have medical offices, and I'm doing the same stuff everybody else is doing.

[Speaker 1] (20:22 - 21:01)
I think there's something to be said for doing things as a industry and having standards for that industry, right? Are you adhering to the standards? And I know how you run your business.

I know that you do. And I know it's the same thing for us. We adhere to the standards that we should be adhering to.

I know there's plenty of people out there that they're just selling the product and moving on. Are they adhering to the standards? I kind of doubt it.

I can't prove that, but if we all had to adhere to the same standards, like a doctor, like a lawyer, that type of thing.

[Speaker 2] (21:01 - 21:04)
Yeah, but the problem is who makes those standards?

[Speaker 1] (21:04 - 21:04)
Right.

[Speaker 2] (21:04 - 21:09)
I mean, I'm going to throw a couple of... No, I'm not. I'm going to hold that back.

[Speaker 1] (21:11 - 21:12)
Because that is the thing.

[Speaker 2] (21:12 - 21:30)
There are organizations that are trying to make this a more professional industry. And then there are people who think they're above the organizations. There are people that I think that they should set the standard.

Okay, you're just one person.

[Speaker 1] (21:30 - 21:31)
You're one voice, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (21:32 - 21:38)
And not to say that you're wrong, but have some empathy for other voices.

[Speaker 1] (21:38 - 22:13)
I 100% do. And I think it's as a community, as an industry, we do need to come together and decide what those standards are going to be and what the baseline should be. It's kind of like somebody came out and said, here's CIS for an example, right?

We've all kind of went, that's pretty darn good. Those are really good. We look at IG-1 and say, those are good baselines.

We should adopt those and do those things. An insurance company said, you know what? You're right.

We can actually take that and use that as a baseline to write a policy off of. So why can't we as an industry or as an organization say the same for ourselves?

[Speaker 2] (22:14 - 22:35)
I think we're trying. I mean, it's a matter of, you know, can we find the best way to use NIST, CIS, CMMC, which again, not every situation applies to every client. But having at least a baseline, all these standards have these things in common.

Are you at least doing those?

[Speaker 1] (22:35 - 23:05)
Yeah, right. And I think the agency previously known as CompTIA, right? They're GTIA now, it has their trust mark.

And I think that is a great way of going at it from the standpoint of baselines, right? I Don’t agree with all of the things that are in there because I think they're a little wonky, but they were pulled from NIST. They were pulled from CIS. They were pulled from all of these frameworks.

And it's a really good baseline to say, if you're an MSP or you're a solution provider, you should be able to do these things.

[Speaker 2] (23:08 - 23:27)
I'm hesitating because CompTIA is the one organization that I left. So if you're watching CompTIA, I know about you. I know you are GTIA.

We'll talk about that on another show.

[Speaker 1] (23:29 - 23:34)
I think their thought process, I think their heart, I think they're community driven.

[Speaker 2] (23:35 - 23:47)
Well, things have changed. I'll be honest. Things have changed.

I left a few years ago. So obviously the new changes look good outside looking in. So I just need to see and hear more.

[Speaker 1] (23:47 - 23:47)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (23:49 - 23:50)
But I'll leave that at that.

[Speaker 1] (23:50 - 23:53)
I just joined one of their councils, so I'll be able to tell you more.

[Speaker 2] (23:53 - 23:55)
I didn't see a thing on LinkedIn with you.

[Speaker 1] (23:55 - 23:56)
Not yet. Not yet.

[Speaker 2] (23:57 - 24:00)
Isn't that the obligatory thing? You have to post on LinkedIn?

[Speaker 1] (24:00 - 24:04)
I Don’t know. I Don’t know. I haven't signed all the paperwork yet, so I'll let you know when I do.

[Speaker 2] (24:05 - 24:08)
See, if you have to sign. Now, here's the question. Are you leading the group?

[Speaker 1] (24:08 - 24:09)
No.

[Speaker 2] (24:09 - 24:10)
Really?

[Speaker 1] (24:10 - 24:12)
No. Isn't that what you do? No.

[Speaker 2] (24:15 - 24:23)
Go in and take over. Oh, by the way, I'm sorry. Giles says thank you.

[Speaker 1] (24:24 - 24:33)
Okay. I actually can't wait to see her on stage. I'm so excited for her.

[Speaker 2] (24:33 - 24:34)
It should be interesting.

[Speaker 1] (24:34 - 24:35)
It should be really good.

[Speaker 2] (24:36 - 24:38)
Yeah. What's the first ASCII event you're going to?

[Speaker 1] (24:40 - 24:46)
Probably Jersey. I'll probably do Jersey. I think it's in April or May.

Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (24:46 - 24:50)
Because, you know, next week, I mean next month, they're back here in Orlando.

[Speaker 1] (24:50 - 24:55)
Yeah, I've heard. You know where I'm not? Here in Orlando.

[Speaker 2] (24:57 - 24:59)
I'll be three months in a row here in Orlando.

[Speaker 1] (25:01 - 25:02)
I'm sorry for you.

[Speaker 2] (25:02 - 25:11)
And next week, I'll be up near St. Augustine at the Florida Man games. You're dying to see that, aren't you?

[Speaker 1] (25:13 - 25:19)
Dying. On so many different levels. I mean, I'm dying inside, actually, that that exists.

[Speaker 2] (25:23 - 25:24)
It's fantastic.

[Speaker 1] (25:24 - 25:25)
So what's your favorite event?

[Speaker 2] (25:26 - 25:30)
I Don’t know. I Don’t know. They added some events, too.

[Speaker 1] (25:30 - 25:32)
Is alligator wrestling one of them?

[Speaker 2] (25:33 - 25:37)
It's not necessarily alligator wrestling, but there is an alligator involved.

[Speaker 1] (25:38 - 25:48)
It feels like drunk wrangling of alligators. It should be a thing, right? This is...

Is there a meth cook-off?

[Speaker 2] (25:50 - 25:52)
No, but there probably should be.

[Speaker 1] (25:54 - 26:09)
I mean, they Don’t actually have to make meth, but like all I can imagine is like a couple of cooks come in. They're like, I Don’t know. I feel like there should be a Winnebago involved in some way, shape or form.

And you just like see who shows up.

[Speaker 2] (26:09 - 26:22)
Yeah, listen, I'm surprised that they got the police departments, the sheriff's department to actually participate by doing an actual chase. So they have real cops.

[Speaker 1] (26:22 - 26:26)
Again, I'm horrified by this.

[Speaker 2] (26:26 - 26:29)
So speaking... OK, here we go. We are way off target here.

[Speaker 1] (26:30 - 26:33)
This was supposed to be... This is your fault. This is not me this time.

[Speaker 2] (26:35 - 26:36)
I blame you.

[Speaker 1] (26:37 - 26:37)
OK.

[Speaker 2] (26:37 - 26:42)
Um, so remember Live PD?

[Speaker 1] (26:42 - 26:43)
Yes.

[Speaker 2] (26:43 - 27:11)
So they brought Live PD back, but without the hosts. So it's on a Reels channel. There is now a whole bunch of YouTube channels that are just simply body cams and video footage.

And I am thinking it is time to do watch parties. I'm thinking I do a podcast where we pull up a YouTube.

[Speaker 1] (27:12 - 27:12)
Is there betting involved?

[Speaker 2] (27:13 - 27:23)
We could do that. We could do... So Live PD used to have bingo cards.

Where, you know, things like, you know, sayings like, these are not my pants.

[Speaker 1] (27:24 - 27:26)
Yes, these are not my pants. That's my favorite one.

[Speaker 2] (27:26 - 27:30)
You know, being seen without a shirt.

[Speaker 1] (27:31 - 27:31)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (27:33 - 27:49)
Tased, you know. So we can make bingo cards and play those and watch these. They are hilarious.

And unfortunately, like 70% of them are Florida. But there are other states involved in stuff. So I'm thinking we should do that.

[Speaker 1] (27:50 - 27:50)
OK.

[Speaker 2] (27:50 - 27:51)
Would you do that?

[Speaker 1] (27:51 - 27:52)
I would do that.

[Speaker 2] (27:52 - 27:52)
Once at least?

[Speaker 1] (27:52 - 27:54)
At least. At least once.

[Speaker 2] (27:56 - 28:02)
All right. So, yeah, so we've gone way off course. My camera's all jacked up again.

[Speaker 1] (28:03 - 28:04)
So...

[Speaker 2] (28:04 - 28:05)
There we go.

[Speaker 1] (28:07 - 28:12)
I Don’t know why. It's like there's not even anything. There's nothing over here to film.

[Speaker 2] (28:12 - 28:18)
You know what it is? And this is going to sound horrible, but it's the whiteness of the face, I think.

[Speaker 1] (28:18 - 28:19)
It probably is.

[Speaker 2] (28:19 - 28:26)
Because I'm up against the black here and I Don’t know. Oh, we had a movement. All right, Don’t move.

[Speaker 1] (28:26 - 28:29)
OK. What did you do?

[Speaker 2] (28:29 - 28:32)
I Don’t know. I waved my hand.

[Speaker 1] (28:32 - 28:34)
Well, why didn't you do that to start with?

[Speaker 2] (28:34 - 28:35)
Because I didn't know.

[Speaker 1] (28:35 - 28:38)
OK. It's a new camera. It's working now.

[Speaker 2] (28:38 - 28:42)
It's working now. Are you missing a session, by the way?

[Speaker 1] (28:43 - 28:44)
Not yet, I Don’t think.

[Speaker 2] (28:44 - 28:46)
This actually, this is like a regular show for us.

[Speaker 1] (28:47 - 28:51)
Yeah, it is a regular show for us. Not till 2.45, actually.

[Speaker 2] (28:52 - 28:52)
Really?

[Speaker 1] (28:52 - 28:59)
I was going to go catch Ryan Bowman's Shadow IT. And then Arno Cain is doing one on instant response today.

[Speaker 2] (28:59 - 29:19)
Let's do this real quick. OK. So I'm on, I was, normally I'm on media row, but I'm not.

I'm actually in the Solution Pavilion with all of the vendors here. I know that you have a routine that you go by and say hello to everyone. So have you gone and checked out all the vendors here?

[Speaker 1] (29:20 - 29:25)
So I did early. Actually, I did yesterday when we were setting up our booth.

[Speaker 2] (29:25 - 29:25)
OK.

[Speaker 1] (29:25 - 29:27)
And then I kind of flipped by this morning.

[Speaker 2] (29:27 - 29:32)
And by her booth, she means the Tech Degenerates. They actually have a booth on the other side. Yep.

[Speaker 1] (29:34 - 29:41)
So, yeah, so I came through. There's a whole bunch of people here I've either not seen, I haven't seen for a while.

[Speaker 2] (29:41 - 29:41)
OK.

[Speaker 1] (29:42 - 29:49)
Or they're new to the space. So I think that's pretty cool. I mean, like, SpecterX is here.

I think this is the first time I've seen them out at a show.

[Speaker 2] (29:50 - 29:53)
Yep, they're right here. I haven't met them yet, but I should introduce myself.

[Speaker 1] (29:53 - 29:56)
Yeah, so they do DLP on all kinds of interesting things.

[Speaker 2] (29:56 - 29:57)
OK.

[Speaker 1] (29:58 - 30:11)
And honestly, like I said, there's some interesting things that I haven't seen before. There's a group that's doing, you know, outsourced service desk. There's some other folks that I just, just different.

[Speaker 2] (30:11 - 30:11)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (30:11 - 30:12)
Different people.

[Speaker 2] (30:13 - 30:17)
Enable is here with the booth. Nerdio is here.

[Speaker 1] (30:18 - 30:20)
Somebody called FirmGuard is over there.

[Speaker 2] (30:20 - 30:22)
I Don’t know them.

[Speaker 1] (30:22 - 30:24)
But it's something about BIOS updates in some way.

[Speaker 2] (30:24 - 30:26)
Our friend CyberQP is here.

[Speaker 1] (30:27 - 30:29)
So I Don’t know if you know this, but ThreatLocker is here.

[Speaker 2] (30:31 - 30:34)
ThreatLocker is here. They've got a swag booth that I have to go look at.

[Speaker 1] (30:34 - 30:36)
They do. They have really nice swag, actually.

[Speaker 2] (30:36 - 30:39)
Yeah, but I think you have to buy it. I Don’t know.

[Speaker 1] (30:39 - 30:41)
So all of the proceeds go to the Ronald McDonald House.

[Speaker 2] (30:43 - 30:56)
This is going to make me sound bad, but that doesn't. I Don’t want to buy swag. Although I am saying this.

The backpacks are cool. I Don’t think I'll ever use it.

[Speaker 1] (30:56 - 30:57)
They are really nice.

[Speaker 2] (30:57 - 31:00)
Everybody that attends gets a backpack, so that's good.

[Speaker 1] (31:00 - 31:21)
So the one thing I will say about the swag store with the proceeds going to the Ronald McDonald House, we have used the Ronald McDonald House. We are a Ronald McDonald House family. The thing behind it is if your child has to go to a hospital far away from you, they actually provide you food, housing, and the things that you need while you are away from home.

[Speaker 2] (31:21 - 31:34)
Well, yeah. Basically, you shouldn't have to worry about expenses. Exactly, exactly.

And are they doing what St. Jude does where all of the services are free?

[Speaker 1] (31:34 - 31:46)
No, so you're still paying your hospital fees and stuff like that, but when my son was at Children's Hospital in Philadelphia, we used the Ronald McDonald House there, and they were stellar.

[Speaker 2] (31:46 - 31:46)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (31:46 - 31:47)
Absolutely stellar.

[Speaker 2] (31:47 - 31:54)
Nice. All right, I take that back. I'll be going and buying some swag to support the Ronald McDonald House.

[Speaker 1] (31:56 - 31:56)
Sorry.

[Speaker 2] (31:57 - 31:59)
It's okay. I've been shamed before.

[Speaker 1] (32:01 - 32:05)
It's not about shame. It's that most people Don’t know what the Ronald McDonald House is or what they do.

[Speaker 2] (32:06 - 32:07)
That's probably true. That's probably true.

[Speaker 1] (32:08 - 32:09)
But that is what they do.

[Speaker 2] (32:09 - 32:12)
Okay. You know what? I didn't see that anywhere either.

[Speaker 1] (32:12 - 32:20)
I think it is around front. I Don’t know if they publicly announce it, but they usually give out the big check. They should.

At the end of the thing.

[Speaker 2] (32:20 - 32:21)
They should announce that. I would promote it.

[Speaker 1] (32:21 - 32:22)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (32:22 - 32:23)
We'll do that.

[Speaker 1] (32:23 - 32:24)
Well, there you have it.

[Speaker 2] (32:24 - 32:30)
There you have it. I think we've gone long enough. We were going to talk cybersecurity.

[Speaker 1] (32:30 - 32:33)
We kind of did. Sort of.

[Speaker 2] (32:35 - 32:36)
And is that a smoker?

[Speaker 1] (32:37 - 32:42)
I Don’t know. Someday we will actually have an agenda and we will stick to it. We will.

Today's not that day.

[Speaker 2] (32:42 - 32:50)
Today's not the day. But thank you for stopping by. And you are probably always the favorite guest of any that we have on our show.

[Speaker 1] (32:50 - 32:52)
I doubt that. Thank you for having me.

[Speaker 2] (32:52 - 32:54)
I'll show you the downloads.

[Speaker 1] (32:55 - 32:59)
The conversations are always good. They're always spicier than I think probably usual.

[Speaker 2] (33:00 - 33:06)
Yes. Yes. But they're good.

So when will I see you next?

[Speaker 1] (33:07 - 33:18)
I Don’t know. Probably in 20 minutes. You know, from here, I'm not doing anything.

I'm doing CCF after this in Chicago.

[Speaker 2] (33:18 - 33:19)
Don’t know what that is.

[Speaker 1] (33:20 - 33:31)
Oh, CompTIA. CompTIA event. Um, my next official one, I think, is July for exchange security.

So I'm going to try not to travel nearly as much.

[Speaker 2] (33:32 - 33:49)
They tried to call me again. Exchange. But I think, is it this week?

I think they're already... No, I have a conflict and I said I can't do it. And then they said, well, maybe you can do the one in October.

But I Don’t know.

[Speaker 1] (33:49 - 34:00)
That's next gen. Next gen would be October. August is security.

No, not security. Exchange August. And then security's in July.

[Speaker 2] (34:02 - 34:04)
So I will be doing PAX 8 Beyond.

[Speaker 1] (34:05 - 34:06)
That's in May, right?

[Speaker 2] (34:07 - 34:16)
It's the end of... I Don’t remember. But it's the...

It's IT Nation, PAX 8 Beyond. They're a week apart.

[Speaker 1] (34:16 - 34:17)
Oh, wow. Okay.

[Speaker 2] (34:17 - 34:19)
IT Nation Secure.

[Speaker 1] (34:19 - 34:20)
Secure, yeah.

[Speaker 2] (34:20 - 34:39)
And then IT Nation in November. I'm doing that. Sean, by the way, send me money to get better steak knives.

I'm doing two, for sure, ASCIs, maybe a third. I'm doing something else.

[Speaker 1] (34:40 - 34:41)
You're going to be busy this year.

[Speaker 2] (34:41 - 34:47)
Yes, I thought I would be doing less, but I'm here. This is a new event for me.

[Speaker 1] (34:47 - 34:49)
Yeah, I might do London Tech Week this year.

[Speaker 2] (34:49 - 34:49)
London?

[Speaker 1] (34:49 - 34:50)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (34:50 - 34:51)
You were just over there.

[Speaker 1] (34:52 - 34:53)
It was lovely. I'm ready to go back.

[Speaker 2] (34:55 - 34:57)
I'm not ready to leave the country.

[Speaker 1] (34:57 - 35:03)
Actually, that's not true. I was in Scotland, mostly. And that was...

It's probably one of my favorite places.

[Speaker 2] (35:04 - 35:12)
Is it breathtaking, as everybody makes it seem, where you're looking out over the cliffs onto the water?

[Speaker 1] (35:12 - 35:24)
So here's the thing. The weird part about Scotland is that you see all these amazing photos of that kind of thing, the water and blah, blah, blah, blah. Yes, it's an island.

[Speaker 2] (35:24 - 35:25)
But it's a big island.

[Speaker 1] (35:25 - 35:47)
But it's good-sized. But the funnier part of that is the magic of Scotland is more in the moment of being somewhere. So the weather changes really fast.

So you might be somewhere and all of a sudden you get this little bit of fog or mist or whatever. And it's just... I removed my hands.

[Speaker 2] (35:48 - 35:48)
Oh.

[Speaker 1] (35:49 - 35:50)
Uh-oh.

[Speaker 2] (35:50 - 35:54)
I'm sorry. That was it. It was your hand.

[Speaker 1] (35:54 - 35:55)
Just my hand.

[Speaker 2] (35:58 - 36:01)
If you're listening to this to audio...

[Speaker 1] (36:02 - 36:03)
How do we do that?

[Speaker 2] (36:03 - 36:07)
You've got to go to the video. That was just fantastic.

[Speaker 1] (36:12 - 36:14)
No, that's it. I've moved my hands. We're Dawne.

[Speaker 2] (36:15 - 36:15)
Yeah.

[Speaker 1] (36:16 - 36:17)
Nope, there it went.

[Speaker 2] (36:18 - 36:21)
Oh, it listens to you too. You're Dawne. So...

[Speaker 1] (36:21 - 36:22)
Look at your camera.

[Speaker 2] (36:23 - 36:30)
All right. Let's take this opportunity to finish up. So the beauty of Ireland is in the moment.

[Speaker 1] (36:30 - 36:31)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (36:31 - 36:32)
I Don’t understand what that means.

[Speaker 1] (36:33 - 36:36)
When you're driving around, you'll be like, I can't believe that's real.

[Speaker 2] (36:36 - 36:37)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (36:37 - 36:51)
That sort of thing. So it's not like Florida where you're like, oh, look, another gator. It's more like there's little ruins of an old farmstead or something like that.

And there's literally some sheep in the field. It looks...

[Speaker 2] (36:51 - 36:52)
Are there really a lot of old castles?

[Speaker 1] (36:53 - 36:53)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (36:53 - 36:53)
Okay.

[Speaker 1] (36:54 - 37:06)
There's a lot. I mean, there's ruins in places. There's little farm crops and things like that from the 1700s, 1600s, that kind of thing.

And you just see them out in the field, a couple of little sheep out there. And it looks like a postcard.

[Speaker 2] (37:06 - 37:07)
Right.

[Speaker 1] (37:07 - 37:21)
Like a postcard kind of thing. And then you get your little minute weather changes or like suddenly the sun comes out and shines like down on it. You're like, oh, look, side quest.

But it's that kind of thing where you're like, this is absolutely breathtaking.

[Speaker 2] (37:22 - 37:24)
And every night a revelry, right?

[Speaker 1] (37:24 - 37:29)
Every night at the bar, at the pub. At the pub. At the pub.

[Speaker 2] (37:29 - 37:31)
Have myself a pint, eh?

[Speaker 1] (37:31 - 37:40)
Yes. And the ciders are very good. Very dry.

It's not sweet cider the way it is here. So it tastes more like beer?

[Speaker 2] (37:40 - 37:41)
I like sweet cider.

[Speaker 1] (37:41 - 37:42)
Do you really?

[Speaker 2] (37:42 - 37:46)
Actually, I take that back. I like pale ale stuff.

[Speaker 1] (37:46 - 37:46)
OK.

[Speaker 2] (37:47 - 37:48)
Is it close to that?

[Speaker 1] (37:48 - 37:49)
Yeah.

[Speaker 2] (37:50 - 37:51)
Because there's no ales in Ireland, right?

[Speaker 1] (37:53 - 37:54)
Scotland.

[Speaker 2] (37:54 - 37:55)
Oh, Scotland.

[Speaker 1] (37:55 - 37:56)
They do have ales, yes.

[Speaker 2] (37:56 - 37:58)
Yeah, but it's like stouts and beers.

[Speaker 1] (37:59 - 38:00)
Yes, it's heavier. Yeah, it's thick.

[Speaker 2] (38:02 - 38:03)
Thick manly drink.

[Speaker 1] (38:03 - 38:06)
Thick manly drink. There's a lot of scotch too, which is delicious.

[Speaker 2] (38:07 - 38:13)
Yeah, I can't do the scotch. All right, we're way off course. But thank you for hanging with us, folks.

If you've made it this far...

[Speaker 1] (38:14 - 38:16)
Definitely watch the video.

[Speaker 2] (38:16 - 38:36)
Yes, please watch the video. And send messages. Send me an email or check us out on the social media.

Respond and say how much you love Dawn Sizer's show. So she can see how popular she really is. Listen, I watched you walk around the vendor hall.

You got stopped every other one.

[Speaker 1] (38:37 - 38:39)
It's because I kept finding people that I wanted to talk to.

[Speaker 2] (38:40 - 39:01)
Or wanted to talk to you. It happens. All right, that's going to do it.

We'll be back with more from Zero Trust World here in Orlando, Florida. And someday, one day, Dawn will travel south and see that there's more to Florida. That's it, folks.

See you later. Holla.